Re: Recreating people [was: renaissance people]

Date: Sun May 14 2000 - 14:44:40 MDT

Because this is a philosophy mailing list, and ot one that has to be peer reviewed by scientists, let us make this conjecture: The Neuro-Matrix may exist in quantum or cosmological eigenstates. What has that to do with phantom-limb pain? Shit, I dunno, but it beats the heck out of saying death is eternal. I wonder if there is a basis for automatic data-gathering and storage, and pre-suposing that; what that Thing may be? Maybe in the Year Trillion, some MIND will decide to play back a Sasha, or a Robert v ? It would make a nice reunion. Meanwhile peeps can still work on the more practical Life-Extension Medical & UpLoading stuff. Welcome to the 'Neuro-Matrix Neo..'

In a message dated Sun, 14 May 2000 2:53:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "Robert J. Bradbury" <> writes:

I had discusssed the problem of whether it will be feasible to know
the difference between A(recreated)-humans vs. and the decorporealized

On Sat, 13 May 2000, Steve wrote:

>> Melzack's Neuromatrix theory of self seems to adequately explain this point.
I didn't understand the reference, so I went looking:

>> { Melzack's neuromatrix theory of phantom limb[1] >>claims that body experience
>> is genetic; he says, for example, that 'the neural >>network that underlies the
>> experience of one's physical self is genetically >>determined'. This assertion
>> is based upon two studies carried out 30 years ago[2->>4 ]which claim 'that a
>> substantial number of children who are born without >>all or part of a limb
>> feel a valid phantom of the missing part'. Close >>scrutiny reveals that
>> these studies have methodological shortcomings. }<<

>[1] Melzack, R. (1990) Trends Neurosci. 13, 88-92.
>[2] Poeck, K. (1964) Cortex 1, 267-275
>[3] Weinstein, S. and Sersen, E. A. (1964) Cortex 1, >276-290
>[4] Weinstein, S. and Sersen, E. A. (1951) Neurology >11, 905-911
> from: >

>I must admit I still don't really see the connection. >Perhaps there is
>something I'm missing about the neuromatrix theory.

>If you are suggesting that an A-human cannot >effectively be the original,
>because there is no underlying genetic material, then >I'd suggest you are
>treading on thin ice. The neural matrix (hardware) is >so similar among most
>humans that we should understand the basic wiring and >the effects of specific
>polymorphisms enough to be able to simulate much of it >quite accurately
>within 15-20 years. I'll take the Turing approach >here that if looks
>like a duck, walks like a duck and talks like a duck >then from my perceptual
>standpoint, it *is* a duck.

>In Sasha's case there would seem to be a fighting >chance that there is enough
>original material around to provide a plausibly >realistic simulation.
>This may be aided by the fact that the individuals are >still available
>from which much of his personal genetic makeup could >be determined.

>In contrast millions of individuals die each year >leaving behind
>nothing more than fading memories in the people they >knew.
>I feel sad for their loss.

>The cloning debates now will pale in comparison to the >geno-reconstruction
>debates of the future. [I'm not assuming that geno->reconstruction will
>be able to reproduce the mind of an individual, but >that geno-reconstruction
>will allow a computer to produce a more accurate >simulation if sufficient
>material regarding the person's life, opinions, >thoughts, etc. is available.]

>So, for those individuals who can't quite convince >their parents or loved
>ones that lifespan extension, cryonics, etc is "real", >you can do an "end-run"
>around their lack of foresight. Sit down with them >with a video camera
>and get them to tell lots of stories about their >life. "Interview" them
>for their not-yet-born family so they will be able >to "know" who Great-Grandma
>or Great-Grandpa was. Get your cells and those of >more enlightened family
>members frozen someplace (there are several >organizations I believe that now
>do this). If you can, request or even covertly >harvest some of their cells
>(e.g. offer to vacuum the house then get the contents >of the bag frozen),
>or clean off the individual's hairbrush.... Not >guaranteed, but better
>than nothing. Best would be to get them to arrange to >have a vial of blood
>shipped to a cold-storage facility the next time they >get a physical checkup
>and blood is being taken for routine lab workups.

>It is worth thinking about this as a "group" activity >at Extro5.
>Certainly a news-worthy and thought provoking activity >to have hundreds
>of individuals interacting with each other with a goal >of providing
>enough "bits" (that can be stored in multiple places) >that they can
>plausibly be recreated or even recorporealized from >such information,
>should an unforeseen or unavoidable accident occur.

>I can see the list in 30 years -- "Ok, will everybody >please look
>at the Burch v.14 recreation and see if his desire for >fast
>cars is tuned correctly?"



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