Re: Can I kill the original?

From: Harvey Newstrom (
Date: Wed May 10 2000 - 13:01:45 MDT

The copy formerly known as "Dan Fabulich" <> wrote:
> I think that's oversimplifying my view... I believed that you had the
> goal, but I believed that you had different reasons for having the goal
> than you actually did.

Agreed, I did oversimplify your view, and your description is more accurate.

> The reasons why someone would be interested in this question are
> simple. You might be thinking about performing a destructive upload
> (especially if that's the only option available).

This is exactly my purpose for participating in these discussions. Most
uploading plans described on this list are destructive. I want to make sure
that the destructiveness isn't aimed at the parts I'm trying to save.

> One reason why someone might be comfortable with all of these is if
> they believe that they are their own copy set, rather than their
> consciousness stream or their atoms.

Yes. A very important side-point here is that there are three belief
systems on this issue, not just two. ("I am my atoms", "I am one
consciousness stream", "I am many consciousness streams"). I have
frequently been lumped into the wrong category while the other two
viewpoints were being debated. Each side assumed that I was on the other
side. I wonder how often this confusion has disrupted these kinds of

> However... According to your own definition of "you," Harvey, "you"
> are almost certain to die. Simple medical immortality is not enough;
> eventually, if you're not careful, you'll get caught in an accident of
> sufficient magnitude that "you" will not be able to recover, no matter
> how advanced the medical science is.

This is my primary concern as well. Most of the destructive techniques for
uploading will destroy the stuff I'm trying to save. I would love to use
these methods, but none of the explanations have convinced me to bet my

I've cut out the rest of your post to save space. I agree with you in that
I might consider destructively copying myself if my death is imminent, and
cryonic preservation were not possible. I plan to put off that decision as
long as possible, and find it to be poor alternative to not dying in the
first place. (Remember that I would view my copy as a kind of cloned
offspring, and not a continuation of myself.)

Harvey Newstrom <>
IBM Certified Senior Security Consultant,  Legal Hacker, Engineer, Research
Scientist, Author.

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