Re: smart pistols

From: Joe Dees (
Date: Wed May 03 2000 - 16:30:45 MDT

('binary' encoding is not supported, stored as-is) >Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 16:55:38 -0400
>From: "Michael S. Lorrey" <>
>Subject: Re: smart pistols
>Joe Dees wrote:
>> >From: stencil <>
>> >
>> >[...]Frequency of Drowning in Different
>> > Media
>> >Saltwater
>> >1-2 %
>> >Fresh Water 98 %
>> >? ? Swimming 50%
>> >Pools Private 30%
>> >? ? ?
>> > Public, Lakes, rivers 20%
>> >? ?
>> > Bathtubs 15%
>> >? ? Buckets of Liquid 4%
>> >? ? Fish Tanks or Ponds 4%
>> >? ? Toilets ? 1%
>> >? ? Washing Machines ? 1%
>> >------------------------------
>> >...references are cited at that website. Note that sample
>> >boundaries are very fuzzy: "toddler," "infant," or
>> >"pediatric population." Comparisons with firearms
>> >Accidental Discharges are difficult because of recent
>> >years' use - and contamination - of the stats for
>> >political purposes. Mike Lorrey's point natheless is well
>> >taken IMO: firearms AD's do not occur frequently enough
>> >to justify hysteria; the rationale for the agitation to
>> >prohibit guns must be sought elsewhere.
>> >
>> Most toddlers (under the age of 4) would have a hard time opening a desk >drawer, lifting the gun and pulling its trigger, so within this age group, >drowning deaths are greater than gunshot deaths. Most unintentional self- or >other-child-inflicted gunshot deaths of minors (unintentional including >bang-bang games where the child does not understand the reality of the result) >occur in ages 6 - 12, during a dip in child drownings, and in this age group, >when drowning in five-gallon buckets is much less of a danger, gunshot deaths >are most likely greater. For ages 15-24, when drowning deaths once again spike, >intentional firearm homicides and suicides are also higher than for those >younger or older.
>My 3 year old nephew is quite capable of all sorts of mischief and is
>quite strong,
What about a 2 year old? A one year old? Where is the cutoff point from the general conclusions you draw from your particular, private and personal anecdotal evidence?
>so no, I contest your dismissal of toddlers, now that it
>has been proven that your hysteria with regards to them is not supported
>by the statistics. Anyone on this list with kids that age can probably
>contest your claims on that score.
Anyone with kids capable or incapable of same under the age of 4 please indicate the age of their kid and whether (s)he is capable or incapable of opening a desk drawer, removing a pistol from it, and pulling it's trigger. Let's establish a consensus cutoff age.
>The rise in 6-12, 12-15, and 15 and
>up shootings can be directly correlated to the decrease in the number of
>children who are taught responsible gun safety from an early age. I shot
>my first 22 at age 7, and safety, responsibility and the consequences of
>shooting were taught to myself and every other child in my family.
This is your belief basd upon your personal experience and your personal interpretation of that experience, but Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson would maintain that it is because the supreme court removed christian indoctrination from our schools, and many other "reasons" can be given. What makes YOUR particular reason objective rather than subjective (and the expected subjective, given your personal baseline on gun-related issues)?
> Since
>the governments own studies support the contention that children who are
>raised thus are far less likely to either cause accidental shootings or
>commit intentional shootings, and the once plentiful and popular
>shooting programs at public schools are now mostly non-existent, I think
>its quite obvious that we need firearms safety back in schools as much
>as we need sex safety, drug safety, and driver safety.
The kind of firearm safety course we need in school is NOT an NRA type how-to-shoot and political indoctrination aimed at creating new NRA members, but rather the instruction for children not to touch any gun they find, but to warn any other children who might have seen it to keep their distance, and to report it to a responsible adult, bringing the other children with him/her, if possible. Parents should have the choice to train and supervise their own childrens' introduction to firearms, or to refrain from doing so; would you, as a civil liberetarian, authorize your hated big gobvernment to usurp that parental right? AIDS, drugs and automobiles kill when people use them wrong, but firearms kill if they are used right (and this does not refer to ethically or responsibly, but in the sense of technically correct).

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