Re: Extropia

From: Steve (
Date: Thu Apr 27 2000 - 12:26:23 MDT

Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 19:54:21 EDT
Subject: Re: Extropia

In a message dated 4/26/2000 4:07:33 PM Pacific Daylight Time, writes:

> >Hi transhumans (also to posthumans, extropians & neohumans e-lists).
> >What do you think of the World transhumanist Association ..... ?
> > I think their magazine at is OK, and possibly
> >important, but a bit "flat."

>Yes, it is. It's the usual 'science without art' fiasco. Dry.

>OK. First of all: it's all only got pictures of men, no women. What do you
>expect? (only partly kidding =o)

Interesting about absence of women in the trans/ extropian firmament .... I
find the opposite is true in some new age/ occult arenas.

>I've always been a little surprised there's not more creativity involved in
>these things myself. More playfulness!
>I always expect visual ambiance, pictures of architecture, spaceships, VR,
>stories, people in action, etc.

Exactly. I hope this is what Extropia can bring.

>This in comparison to most of what's out there is amazingly aesthetic!

>But seriously, if you go beyond it's boring prospectus brochure
>typesetting and look at links, (!!!) or Anders website -- you
>might find a bit more "Flash".

>I wonder why it doesn't link to any of the especially creative Natasha's
>sites, or am I missing something... I suggest you visit
> for a more compelling and exotic view of

Yes, have already been contacted by some other trans/ post-human sites who
want links to Extropia.

Thanks to all those who have e-mailed me expressing support .... I promise
that some of the new content I have been sent will go up today or tomorrow.
Please send links and stuff as well to Extropia so we can all stay in touch.


Date: 27 Apr 2000 10:21:24 +0200
From: Anders Sandberg <>
Subject: Re: Extropia

"Steve" <> writes:

> The WTA magazine caters for scientists and the serious minded .... but is
> too much like an academic publication for my tastes, and for many who
might > otherwise be drawn towards the post/trans/x-human community.

This is exactly the point. The journal of transhumanism was set up to
be as scholarly as possible, with peer review, demands for correct
citations and all the other academic trappings. The goal was to work
on academically respectable transhumanism, not to be a general
transhumanist magazine (there are after all others better suited for

Fine .... this was my surmise about the WTA journal.

Although compared to most of the scientific journals out there it is a
laughing, sparkling festival of jokes. :-)

Scientists do have an image problem it seems .....

As for the science bias in JoT and transhumanism in general, I think
it is mostly due to the lack of good treatment of "soft"
subjects. There is no doubt that a lot of psychology and other forms
of metaprogramming are *necessary* for us to self-transform, but
honestly the field is a hopeless mess of theories, useful tricks,
hype, uncertain and untestable methods and of course downright
erroneous claims. Fishing up the good stuff is hard.

I think we agree here. My approach is very interdisciplinary and
boundary-crossing, and Extropia will tend to focus on exactly the areas you
outline (plus posthuman arts & more 'personal' content).


- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Anders Sandberg Towards Ascension!

Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 11:11:17 +0200
From: KPJ <>
Subject: Re: Extropia


It appears as if Steve <> wrote:

|The WTA magazine caters for scientists and the serious minded .... but is
|too much like an academic publication for my tastes, and for many who might
|otherwise be drawn towards the post/trans/x-human community.

Call me a killjoy (although _not_ a Bill Joy !-) if you want, but I find
the listed web locations

somewhat lacking to say the least...

Please bear with me .....Since the launch YESTERDAY I have been busily
collating new material that should be up later tonite. These sites are
currently just entry portals pointing to Extropia magazine, not the e-zine

In fact, they appear to me as a yell for Anchluss of all transhumanism and
extropianism to a kind of occultism.

Probably the other way around! I am trying to pull the occult fraternity in
a post-human direction.

My bogometer gives a bright red alarm after reading the pages: Qabbala,
occultism, Enochial chess,

Where is the page called "Qabbala" ... am not aware of it on any of my
sites. Enochian Chess isn't on the posthuman pages, but at another site or
pages of a site entirely. The C19th Golden Dawn adept, McGregor Mathers
(Enochian Chess innovator) , exhorted us to be "more than human" which I
think counts him as being posthuman ...... do you disagree?

 third eye (aka ``Phantom Eye Hypothesis'' and ``Median Vision Theory''),
dreams, etc. Heretical philosophy, indeed..

MVT is very much a heresy against conventionalism ... per force, since it is
new. Do you disagree with me that the transition from the E-2 brain to the
E-1 brain (on loss of the pineal eye) represents a change from a
finite-state to an infinite-state system ('analog' consciousness such as we
experience requires the loss of the external clock/ pineal eye so that the
E-1 circuit can self-organise)?

I am careful to point out that 'third' eye is a misnomer, since it predates
lateral eyes. Dreams are "phenomena" aren't they ..... or don't you have
them?????? Aren't you interested in evolutionary reasons for REM, Globus,
Axelrod &c (scientists, not occultists). These are the issues in MVT, which
is a natural, scientific theory, grounded in replicable experiements.

I hereby label those web pages as ``new age fluff''. >WHAM<

What is post/trans/ extropian/neohuman movement about if not the "new age"
.... and how we can best create it. Your label says as much about your own
cognitive processes and bias than it accurately describes MVT pages. > Like
the sound effect though!<

So please send in some 'substantial' hard-science contribution &c. to make
sure Extropia doesn't become too fluffy and out-there...... I have a very
encyclopedic and non-prescriptive philosophy of editing.

Caveat lector.

Steve Nichols

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