Use of lethal force, WAS:Re: Death Penalty (was Re: Didn't need no welfare state)

From: Michael S. Lorrey (
Date: Wed Apr 19 2000 - 10:43:35 MDT

James Wetterau wrote:
> "Michael S. Lorrey" says:
> > Zero Powers wrote:
> ...
> > > Sounds nice. But the minute you hold the state to the same standard as
> > > individuals, the state gives up all police power (except in those few
> > > circumstances were governmental employees or property are harmed or
> > > threatened) and all prisons must be emptied. That might sound like a good
> > > thing to you, but the day it happens here is the day I move to Costa Rica.
> >
> > Actually, this is not true. The only greater authority police have that you a
> nd
> > I don't have is the ability to give traffic tickets, and in some states, arre
> st
> > for misdemeanor offenses. We are all authorized and responsible to apprehend
> > criminals committing felonies, and in the face of threat of deadly force, wit
> h
> > unarmed individuals present, lethal force is generally legal, though there ar
> e
> > differing thresholds.
> ...
> In New York State, Murder 1 (Capital) is reserved for killing a police
> officer in the line of duty:
> In New York City, the right to carry a weapon is so restricted that
> police are among the only people who can do it fairly automatically.
> (The City Council are, too.) The legislatures of New York City and
> New York State have thus created a situation in which a police officer
> is both trusted with deadly force and protected from deadly force in a
> manner in which fellow citizens are not. Then there are the kinds of
> guns and bullets police officers have access to -- "cop killer"
> bullets.
> I believe this imbalance can be disastrous, and leads to the worst
> possible relations between the police and the public, but generally
> the NYPD have supported (at least officially) New York's laws.

Thats a good reason why its the 'empire state'. They seem to think in
those terms...

'cop killer' bullets are a misnomer and a matter of propaganda. Its
perfectly legal for civilians to own and use body armor, but only cops
can have ammo that can penetrate it? scuse me? That makes the ammo 'law
abiding citizen killer' ammo. Moreover, body armor is only good for
certain calibers, and there are different classes of body armor as such.
A .22 hornet round can penetrate most vests used by police, while a
5.7mm FN AP round can penetrate 45 layers of kevlar and titanium (note
how this particular round is restricted to cops and military). The
standard US .223 AR-15 round can penetrate all but the most modern and
expensive body armor, and this is one of the most popular rounds
available. Note that Rep Waxman is trying to get a 'sniper weapon' law
passed that will not only outlaw all bolt action, semi automatic, and
automatic rifles of .50 caliber or higher (it calls owners of such
weapons 'threats to national security'), but the bill will give the ATF
the authority to add on their own administrative initiative, any other
calibers it feels are useful for sniper operations. Methinks that the
good Congressman may be sweating a little that he wants to push the
country too far and is worried about personal prejudicial

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