Re: Steering the Extropian Ship [was ... Where do cool people go?]

Date: Wed Apr 19 2000 - 09:42:28 MDT

Thanks for your "timely" reply, Robert. Regarding the fantastic difficultly
of regathering dispursed information, such as our conciousness, I have to
aggree with you. Which leads me back to the often dis'ed Godel paper on time
travel paths using Einstein's general relativity in a very slowly, rotating
universe. Curiously enough, I came across a re-submitted paper in General
Relativity-Quantum Cosmology (arXiv:gr-qc/9907007 v3 18 Apr 2000) by Tufts
University cosmologist, Ken D. Olum. His paper is The Ori-Soen Time Machine.

Sincerely, Mitch

In a message dated 4/18/00 11:55:10 PM Pacific Daylight Time, writes:

<< On Wed, 19 Apr 2000 wrote:
> What I m the focusing on the obscure and strange notion of
> 'resurrection' that can be outlined in a pure, materialist, physicalist,
> objectivist, hypothesis.
 I've thought very hard about lifespan extension, the technologies
 involved, and the possibilities "around" the fatality of death
 for ~8 years. I can see no basis for the classic "resurrection"
 hypothesis. I can see a clear path for reanimation if you don't destroy
 the body. Once the body is gone however (or most of the greater
 than molecule sized pieces), I can't see how you would recreate it.
 It becomes simply an information theoretic question about how
 much you have to disassemble it before the information contained
 in it can no longer be reassembled accurately. *If* and its a
 very big *if*, you have a computer larger than the universe that
 is running the simulation, you *might* be able to run it backwards
 and recreate everyone. But I believe that has to be an existing
 precondition, which is in the realm of faith and not things we
 can engineer ourselves. It is also very questionable whether
 you can run the universe backwards given information loss down
 black holes (oops, there goes the last atom of Spudboys's old body...)
 and the random choices that get made by things operating at the
 quantum level *and* the limits dictated by chaos theory. I suspect
 you would have to have a very big computer and you would get a multitude
 of "backward" running universes. Which one do you want -- the one
 where you exist or the one where you don't?
> I am concerned with that amongst our August group (or anywhere else) there
> appears to be a dearth of such intellectual creativity on this admittedly,
> unusual, topic.
 Well, Anders' IQ is about 10 points above mine and I think he is in
 the same camp I'm in on this scenario. That means it requires someone
 on Tipler's level to begin to tackle the problem. There may be a few
 people like that lurking amongst us, but most of them have better things
 to do with their time. You are talking a very small set of people with
 this brain power. Probaly only a few thousand of them on the planet.
> Moreover, I believe that this line of study would make
> in-roads with the general public. I mean, if you have at least pointed the
> way out of permanent death, then nonotech and macro-engineering would be
> easier to gather support for.
 I *can* point out a complete engineered path out of permanent death
 up to the limits of the best understanding of the lifetime of the
 universe (when the protons decay). I can even punt when it comes
 to SI level brain power being able to (maybe) create altiverses
 and tunnel us into them. I cannot however find any way to
 "resurrect" individuals currently dead and not cryopreserved.
 My impression when I explain this path to people is that they
 lose all standard frames of reference and don't have any idea
 what to do with it. People have a hard time supporting things
 that they really don't understand. So I usually have to punt
 and say you are going to live two thousand years (on average),
 be fabulously rich and spend most of your time redesigning your
 larger-than-Gates-style mansion while complaining all the time
 about the prices the nanobots are charging you for construction.
 Most people *even* have a hard time with that.
 Robert >>

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