Re: Death Penalty (was Re: Didn't need no welfare state)

From: Michael S. Lorrey (
Date: Tue Apr 18 2000 - 23:43:36 MDT

Gina Miller wrote:
> I have a feeling that one day in the future, we will consider capitol
> punishment just as barbaric as foreign countries see us now, (Europe seems
> to look down on our electric chair) or as we now view the guillotine. I
> acknowledge that I have extreme viewpoints towards hypocritical punishment.
> Here's our government "we do not allow killing, it is wrong, so we will kill
> you". To me, (and I know not a lot will agree, here's where I throw in a
> disclaimer: people can use physical punishment towards their own children,
> that's their family, their business, and their choice, although I would
> chose not to") it is just as ironic as if I had a child (say Timmy), that
> was hitting the neighbor kid , 'little Cindy' from down the street, and I
> said "Timmy it's wrong to hit other's" and proceeded to hit him 'as
> punishment'. I know that not everyone will agree with this, but I think
> exact punishments, tend to escalate the action. If we kill murder's, does
> this prevent any further murders?

The problem Gina, is that the government has, statutorily, rather
exacting standards as to who it can kill under what circumstances. Some
of these circumstances are less exacting than what is required of
civilians to kill, but more exacting in other circumstances, and
sometimes these standards are not followed to the letter or even to the
spirit. James is right to say that they should be held to no higher or
lower a standard than average people are held to.

Frankly I don't give a hoot what the europeans think of us. We've bailed
their asses out of situations that caused far more death and destruction
than has ever happened here in total, so they are nobody to point
fingers. They seem to think that any murder that isn't happening as part
of a war or genocide is a crime against humanity, while if it happens
inside one of those two contexts that nobody is responsible, that
everyone 'was just following orders', which is a bullshit cop out.

The old 'thou shalt not kill' is a mis-interpretation of the old jewish
ethic, which was originally 'thou shalt not murder'. There is a distinct
difference between the two. As much as I like Nadia, I still think she's
out to lunch to say that killing is murder no matter what. As James
Halperin said in his _The Truth Machine_, "some people need killing".
Thats supposedly an old Texas defense for killing a criminal or other
pox on society, and I agree with it. Some times to only way to improve
the gene pool is to cull the herd.

Prof. John Lott has shown that the death penalty, as it is currently
used as a legal punishment today, has shown little impact, positive or
negative, against violent or other crime, mainly because it is imposed
so rarely, and is so easy to delay and get out of. However, that the
same statistics show that the threat of death at the crime scene by the
targeted victim on the perpetrator has a measured impact on crime. The
death penalty, issued at the crime scene by the victim to the
perpetrator, does have a measurable impact on crime. Its also been shown
that a 1% increase in legal concealed weapons carriers cause a 2%
reduction in crime.

Little kids don't associate in the way you describe. They are always
trying to find rationalizations for why what the did was right, and how
they were wronged, but they DO respond to negative reinforcment.
Excessive use of corporal punishment is detrimental, however rational,
measured doses make sure the kids learn that the few rare times they are
subjected to corporal punishment, they had really crossed the line.
Imposing coporal punishment on your kids should be cases where 'this
hurts me more that it hurts you', no matter how much your kids don't
want to beleive it. I've found that many, if not most kids who had never
been subjected to any corporal discipline in their lives were typically
self centered, arrogant, demanding, spoiled brats, far into adulthood.

Funny thing is, Hitler didn't beleive in corporal punishment for kids.
He was a vegetarian too...

This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Thu Jul 27 2000 - 14:09:34 MDT