Re: extropy

From: Robert Bradbury (
Date: Sun Apr 09 2000 - 19:51:17 MDT

Re: extropy definitions

On Sun Apr 2000, wrote:

> Does extropy mean that we can increase information (inside)
> without, at the same time, increase the entropy (outside)?
> Has this term (extropy) some softer meaning?

Well, the definitions should all be on the extropy web site
(, see the Extropian Principles and FAQ).

But my short answer would be that since you can't violate the laws
of thermodynamics, any increased organization of information
(i.e. our conscious directed evolution of ourselves and a more
highly organized, sophisticated, creative society, etc.) must
come at the expense of creating greater disorder in the universe
as a whole. However, since the universe is "running down"
*anyway*, you could view our intervention(s) as simply siphoning
off some of the energy that would only go to waste anyway.
Dyson and Kardashev were among the first to point out that all the
energy that stars radiate away into space is really quite a waste.

It is interesting to consider that shifting from a random evolutionary
process (e.g. nature & natural selection), to a consciously directed
self-evolved process, may in fact more efficiently use the
available energy. That is because the random process has to
produce a lot of real failures to come up with some successes.
At least with self-directed conscious evolution we are more
likely to have those failures be of a "virtual" type (since
most of our designs are now tested in virtual universes).
Virtual failures are likely to be much cheaper than real failures.
[Hans Moravec discusses this to some extent in his recent Robots book.]

Perhaps some of the rocket engineers on the list can elaborate... :-)

> I need some help!
> I'm a new transhuman being (from Italy)!

Hmmmm, a transhuman world with 10,000 copies of Roberto Bellini,
now isn't that an interesting picture... :-)


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