more exciting information regarding an enclave for cryonicists being on the hori

From: john grigg (
Date: Fri Apr 07 2000 - 16:18:30 MDT

Hello everyone,

The exciting discussion about creating a resort with a cryonics community
around it is continuing on Cryonet. For those of you without Cryonet
subscriptions here is more promising news about the project. There is a
plot of land nearby that is up for sale. Perhaps, extropians should
purchase it and be the good neighbors next door! ;)


John Grigg

Message #13492
Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 17:31:04 -0500
From: david pizer <>
Subject: Re: CryoNet #13475 - #13483

Reply to several persons
From: Dave pizer

Thanks for all the direct and public response. During the next 12 months we
welcome as much input as possible. Venturist co-founder, Mike Perry, and I
and the Venturist Board want to learn as much as possible about what the
cryonics community wants before we start construction. We want to create a
facility that *you* will want to visit often and you will *want*to retire to
someday. A place that you can visit or live in where you can help promote
your and our common views to the rest of the world through many different
We want to create a facility that will be successful in promoting the
cryonics/immortality philosophy to the rest of the world. We *need* your

>Message #13475>From: "john grigg" <>
>Subject: A cryonics enclave is on the horizon!
>Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2000 03:14:37 PDT>>David Pizer wrote:

>This is the parcel that I would like to create a cryonics community that I
>have seen a need for.


>David, I am excited!


>I think this is what cryonics has been looking for. A cryonicist >enclave
>like this could really capture the positive interest of the >public and
>mass media and help to focus our energies in a way that >would really
>benefit each other.

This is what we are shooting for, and it is very exciting!

>I just hope it is designed to be affordable for all income levels.

One size does not fit all - we will have to have several sizes and levels of
affordability. Having been in cryonics for so long, I have come to realize
that we have people from the poverty level to many multi-millionares. We
want to creat a facility where people from all financial levels can come and
be comfortable - physically and financially. The commonality here is the
philosophy not one's financial status. But we realize that wealthy people
are going to want certain things that they might be used to and other
people are going to be on fixed income and things need to be affordable.

We should have very comfortable housing for modest costs. For those on
really short incomes, we can provide employment in the resort end of the
facility. Keep in mind that this is two facilities in one - a resort for
the general public that should generate very good income and a cryonics
community where people can live and work together promoting cryonics and the
philosophy of biological immortality.

>A powerful thrill shot through me as I read your post and I hope to
>feel even greater excitement as I read in the future about how
> >construction is going on to make the dream a reality. Good luck >with it
>and I hope you get the support you deserve.

I don't think finances will be the issue - the first big problem is getting
zoning and use approved, I am working on that now. The land is paid for and
I soon hope to have enough money (within 12 months) to build the first stage
of the lodge and 10 cabins. After that we will enlarge (bigger lodge + more
cabins) as business grows. When the resort gets a little bigger, we will
use the excess profit to build the cryonics community: houses and
apartments, meeting buildings, spa/exercise room, a place to publish our
magazine and a computer workroom and offices for volunteers to "spread the
>Message #13476>
>Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 08:02:39 EDT
>Subject: Re: CryoNet #13463, cryonics community.
>I have s similar idea for a lot of time now. I think the real >problem is
>one of "critical mass": There are too few candidate to >organize something.

Yes. That is why I had to couple the cryonics community with some other
income-generating entity. The idea of a resort and cryonics community fit
together well. A place to visit for vacation and a place to retire to
later- all in one.

>On the other side, I see many cryonicist interested in other advanced
>technical areas, such astronomy, space and rocket, electronics and
> >computing to name some of them. Why not then create some techno->center
>where interested amateurs would find a technical support for >their hobby?

I hope we can eventually have things like this. We want to include as many
things as possible so that like-minded cryonicists/immortalists will *want*
to move here and live here forever (well for a long time). The things you
mention are the things cryonicists are interested in, and just by the fact
that a lot of us are living in the same community these things are bound to
take hold as hobbies and more.

>They could come here for their holidays and then choose to retire on >that

This is exactly why the resort for the public and the cryonics community go
so good together. During their life time cryonicists can come to the resort
for vacations and get familiar with the facility. When they get older and
want to retire they will feel comfortable with moving here because they have
visited in many times.
Older cryonicists need a common place to retire to. They are most at risk
for sudden death and it will greatly increase their odds of getting a better
suspension if they live in a place that checks on them every morning (good
for younger people too) and makes sure they are ok, or if they need help.

When I was at Alcor I found that some of our members (when they became
terminal) wanted to move closer to Alcor so they could get a better
suspension but they were not comfortable with leaving their homes to go to a
place they were not familiar with. So most of them stayed at their homes
far from Alcor, and most of them did not get as good of suspensions if they
had moved close. I want to see this changed. We must create a facility
where terminal people will not be uncomfortable to move to if we want to
help them.

>It would be psychologically more interesting than a site where "you >wait
>for death".

One of the most dreadful things to imagine is being old and very sick. Your
spouse is already dead. The neighbors don't give a hoot about you and you
are at risk for sudden death. This dreadful situation can be helped some by
retiring to a cryonics-community where your neighbors are
cryonicists/immortalists and care about you and your philosophy - they will
be there to help you get good care, just as you might help someone else if
you are able to.

A person in this situation needs like-minded friends to talk to in these
eventual hard times. On of the most horrible things that I have seen in the
last 2 decades is where several long-term cryonicists ended up alone, old
and sick - and in this vunerable condition they got talked out of being
suspended. I want to see this end.

>Message #13463
>Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 18:50:07 -0700
>From: Peter Christiansen <>
>Subject: RE: Dave Pizer's Cryonics Supportive Community
>The principal objection to Dave Pizer's proposal for the >establishment of
>a Cryonics Suportive Community seems to be that >many people do not want to
>give their home for a small apartment. >This seems understandable. What
>about a cryonics supportive >manufactured (formerly mobile) home community
>which would rent space >to cryonicists on which they could site their own
>manufactured homes.

I think that there was a wrongful-conception. This community will provide
homes just as large (or smaller if desired), on lots as large as the
cryonicists used to live in. There are many retirement communities in
Arizona for us to use for models. Many of them have large, free-standing
homes on large lots. Some have small homes or apartment style living.

There is no reason to thing that the facility will only have small
apartments. For those on very limited income there will be small
apartments but there also can be larger homes if there are people willing to
pay for them. For the very wealthy, they may want to buy an estate within a
few miles of the facility. That way they can have more privacy and still
participate in the events that are going on at the facility. Although this
parcel of land is surrounded by a 2 to 5 mile wide belt of public land (will
probably be a park) there is other private land nearby. Thanks for the

Dave Pizer
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