Re: FASHION: The Extropian T-Shirt

Scott Badger (
Tue, 9 Mar 1999 15:52:42 -0600

Eliezer S. Yudkowsky wrote:

>Scott Badger wrote:
>> Congratulations Eliezer. And you thought we would would reject you?! I,
>> too, greatly enjoyed your banner. Just one section concerns me a bit,
>> though. Call me skittish or nit-picky, but how do we reconcile the
>> discussions of how Extropians embrace the principle of "non-initiation of
>> force" and your phrase, "WE will drag this planet, kicking and screaming,
>> into the awesome and unknowable FUTURE." I wonder how lay persons are
>> likely to react to this statement. Might I offer, "WE will lead this
>> into the awesome and unknowable FUTURE." I'd buy one with that edit.
>> the copyright. What do you think?
>Hmmm... <drums fingers on desk>... That's actually a pretty good
>objection. Maybe an alternate version would be a good idea. Still, as
>a slogan, I think the first version is slightly better.

>What I'm saying is not that we are going to COERCE the world into the
>future, but that a lot of people, as always, are going to try to hide
>under the blanket, kick up a big stink, and outlaw every form of
>technology more complicated than a Whitney gin. We are going to have to
>deal with technophobia.


>One of the things a cause needs is a problem to overcome, and it does
>help if the problem is political. I'm treading on really thin ice by
>doing that, but as long as I imply reluctance rather than evil
>opposition, I haven't crossed the divide into hate-mongering (UNLIKE
>people who use the term "entropians", by the way). The Extropian quest
>is not purely technological; we have memes to overcome.
>In point of actual fact, the planet WILL go into the future "kicking and
>screaming" and it will have to be dragged. It always has been.
>Which makes a nice reply to the people who walk up to you and want to
>talk to you about the "kicking and screaming" part. "Oh, no, we don't
>want to force anyone; it's just that part of the problem is the media
>getting hysterical about things like cloning and genetic engineering."
>(If challenged, add "There are legitimate issues, but they aren't
>raised; there's too much panic-mongering and sensationalism.")
>Finally, and most importantly, "lead" isn't quite as vivid as "drag,
>kicking and screaming". I can't think of an equally good phrase offhand.

Yeah, "lead" is a bit wimpy. Michael Butler offered "drive" instead of "lead" but hat doesn't really have a ring to it either. I guess I was worrying about the people that see the phrase and *don't* walk over to ask for clarification.

Actually, the more I read the original, the less it bothers me. Slogans _should_ be somewhat provocative and in your face. As Roseanna Roseanna Danna might have said, "Nevermind."