Re: >H Sort of test

Timothy Bates (
Sun, 07 Mar 1999 16:45:16 +1100 said

>> Remember, even a current enemy can be a future
>> ally, so let's neither demonize nor denigrate those who are not yet >H, and
>> darn well not let anyone demonize or denigrate >H.
and Anders Sandberg suggested
> It is a bit like a memetic prisoners' dilemma: we can defect or
> cooperate with other memes. And of course, >H is a rather broad stream
> of thought, so we might quite well end up on very different sides in
> some issues - which is really good as long as it doesn't hinder us
> from developing.

Shifting this debate to the level of memes is an important advance, Anders, thank you. It makes explicit the real competition (between memes) and also allows us to understand that some memes may construct vehicles which destroy (physically) the vehicles of other memes.

Now, as long as we have non-initiation of force as a core principle around which everyone of will rally every single time, we can disagree all we like.

Therefore, regarding the memes of which you two are speaking, I agree with both of you 100%. Live and let live, think, talk, cooperate at times etc.

My problem is with the memes which advocate first use force against our memes. Memes which program their vehicles to cripple or destroy our vehicles.

The memes of which I am speaking are not playing prisoner's dilemma. They don't give you a choice about cooperating, that is the whole point.

Cooperating with these memes is death: that is the program they are running.

How do cooperate with a meme that says drugs are illegal and using them to improve your information-processing speed or longevity is illegitimate? (these two are both written principles of the Food and Drug Administration, for instance).

This meme outlaws your brain from achieving extropy. It legislates that you must die within 4 score and 10 years +- 20, and that you must not have an IQ or intellect more than three standard deviations above the 1970 mean.

To tie this to the first par quoted above, I can see no possible future in which these memes are future allies.

Now, the only way in which one can influence the success of a meme is via the success of its vehicle. If its vehicle is allowed to roam the country-side forcibly reprogramming other vehicles, incarcerating vehicles like Larry Flynt who refuse to be reprogrammed, disarming vehicles which might be future threats etc. I think that we have to do something. Running away is not yet an option.