Re: >H Sort of test

joe dees (
Thu, 04 Mar 1999 21:42:12 -0500

At Fri, 05 Mar 1999 12:40:35 +1100, you wrote:
>> I would like to second the idea of not getting trapped in the Us vs. Them
>> meme. I think it is important to remember that the general public is not the
>> enemy, they are our families, friends, coworkers, neighbors, and us. We need
>> to be able to reach out to those who have not discovered.
>I believe that mostly people don't want to and in fact can't discover this,
>but that is beside the point.
>I think an appropriate metaphor here is "the man who shot liberty valance"
>Jimmy Stewart is a lawyer who becomes a Senator - "the man who shot liberty
>valance". Now famous and a legendary man he is thoughtful and reasoned,
>articulate and intelligent. But in fact he would be dead without John Wayne,
>who was, in fact, the man who shot Liberty Valance.
>In some ways this discussion is like
><amydalae off> (As Anders would say ;-)
>the founding of Israel
></amydalae on>
>There were very distinct schools including rabbinical schools who believed
>that Zion would be founded by god when god felt like it and that the
>Zionists were wrong (many of these people thought that the founders would
>lead to the annihilation of the Jewish people).
>Among those fighting for Zion were again many schools. The Stern gang
>couriered money and robbed banks to fund the movement and arms. They
>brutally assassinated many British Officials. Many thought these people were
>wrong. Then there was a moderate proto-army (which also ran guns past the
>British blockade and assassinated officials), and there was a talk talk talk
>All, in this case, had a common goal:foudnig a Zionist State. They also had
>many goals _not_ in common. These underpin many of the internal frictions
>within Israel today, particularly regarding the role of the secular state,
>one reason why I personally consider atheism a sine-qua-none for people who
>are part of the future.
>I believe that a world of free, autonomous, self-transforming, biotech
>trans-humans will not come into being without all of of the above mentioned
>schools: violent defense of particular rights, modest but aggressive defense
>of more general rights, and constant and indefatiguable talking, and
>explanation, and observation. Just the latter will not, IMHO, get us there,
>anymore than just talking would have created Israel. Not continuing to talk,
>especially to one another, will equally fail.
>How's that for balanced radicalism ;-)
It gets hard to detect essential differences when one studies historical facts. Menachem Begin was a terrorist/freedom fighter for his people, who became head of a state, as did Nelson Mandela (after 24 years in prison). Yassar Arafat is on the verge of doung the same thing with Palestine. Ocalan, the Kurdish guerilla leader, would seem to fit into the same mold of doing bad things against bad people for good causes. He was on the way to becoming another Menachem Begin or Yassar Arafat, if the 30 million Kurds (the largest ethnic group of stateless people in the world) had been able to carve out the autonomy for their historical homeland which they had been repeatedly promised. The Turks are sure to kill him, if only to forstall the possibility that he would eventually become another Nelson Mandela. Joe E. Dees
Poet, Pagan, Philosopher

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