Re: Re: Extropianism & Theology

joe dees (
Thu, 25 Feb 1999 14:55:59 -0500

If you don't want to get snagged in logical self-contradiction (omniscience vs. omnipotence and the like), you should check out the following:

Superior Beings: If They Exist, How Would We Know?: Game Theoretic Implications on Omniscience, Omnipotence, Immortality and Incomprehensibility by Steven J. Brams

At 25 Feb 1999 19:37:40 +0100, you wrote:
> writes:
>[human-to-Borg-to-God scenario]
>> At this point it/they is/are God. Sort of
>> like the Borg with firewalls, and much better looking. More like the Q
>> Continuum.
>I buy this. This sounds like a great future, well worth striving
>for. The danger is thinking it is inevitable - if we do that, then we
>think that we don't need to do much, and eventually nothing gets
>done. But if we see it as a goal, something noble to strive for (in
>its many varieties) in a rational manner, then we have a chance of
>getting there.
>> Having control of time means that God is operating now and was
>> operating in the past, therefore we can gain knowledge of God by
>> studying the nature of the universe. This study I say is worship,
>> and is the only worship God expects. He most certainly doesn't
>> expect us to prostrate ourselves at his feet.
>This is the part I don't buy. Note that you assume time travel, which
>is a rather big assumption, and also that God will exist in this way,
>which is another big assumption. It would be nice if it was true, but
>there are no particular reasons to think that these assumptions hold
>> In fact. I believe God expects us to join the community of gods that is God,
>> when we're good enough, when we deserve it. Frank Tipler tells us how we can
>> all be brought back to life in the massive computers of the future. I don't
>> think the Omega Point is integral to this theory, so it doesn't matter if the
>> Universe will crunch or not.
>Well, Tipler did manage to show some interesting limitations on
>posthuman omniintelligences (or whatever to call the things that are
>SI to SIs), and without an OP they will still be finite - immense, but
>with a finite lifetime, computational ability and memory. On the other
>hand, if you allow time travel you can likely do tricks that make the
>Bekenstein bound break.. but it is a big assumption to make.
>> God is our descendent and his nature is an extension of ours.
>> We must be worthy!
>And Man created God in his image who created Man in his image who
>Ah, The Church of the Fixed Point: our reality and human nature is the
>only consistent fixed point for the above process. The Church spends
>lots of time iterating immense dynamical systems on the holy computers
>trying to calculate the parameters of love, truth and sacredness. They
>have already found truth to two decimal places..
>Anders Sandberg Towards Ascension!
>GCS/M/S/O d++ -p+ c++++ !l u+ e++ m++ s+/+ n--- h+/* f+ g+ w++ t+ r+ !y
Joe E. Dees
Poet, Pagan, Philosopher

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