Re: Arguments from Nonexistence. Was: Extropians and animal rights

Michael S. Lorrey (
Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:54:17 -0500

Samael wrote:

> >I'm also pro-choice, not because I don't think that the fetus is a living
> >creature, I think it is, but by all international norms, a human being must
> be a
> >citizen of either a country or a visitor from a UN Human Rights Treaty
> signatory
> >country, or from a country has diplomatic relations with the country we are
> >talking about to be considered to have rights.
> So now rights have to be conferred by the UN or by a country???? Aren't you
> supposed to be a libertarian?

Yes I am. However, the abortion is a debate on the legal status of the fetus in the current system. There is no current system in existence which allows for citizenship for the unborn, based on location during conception. You must be born somewhere to be given citizenship there. A person without a country in the present day has no big thug to protect him from other big thug governments, and has no rights except and unless the big thug picking on the nationless individual is a signer of the UN Human Rights treaty. We are talking about legalities here, not absolutes. As I said, I do beleive that abortion is killing a being., but under the current legal systems everywhere it is not murder any more than putting a dog to sleep can be murder.

Mike Lorrey

> Samael