Re: IDs and privacy

Randall Randall (
Sat, 9 Jan 1999 18:03:26 -0500

On Sat, 09 Jan 1999, Samael wrote:
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Randall Randall <>
>>Here's a good test: If the person in question is aware enough of
>>consequences to want to press charges against you for using
&gt;>force to prevent their own drinking, then they are old enough to
>It'll take the average 8 year old about ten seconds to tell you they'd press
>charges (once the word spread, of course). Kids frequently get upset at
>their parents and threatedn them with all sorts of retribution in tantrums.

Perhaps I was unclear. Let them press charges, if they wish. I can *threaten* all I like, but actually choosing to do it (which is what I meant by "want to" above) is another thing. Most kids will press charges only once, and will probably drop charges as soon as they see the consequences. Then it won't happen again unless they are serious, and they'll *understand* what liberty can cost (in this case, only a comfy place to crash and the support of parents, but you get the idea).

>How do you know if they actually understand?

I don't. Of course, I don't know if *you* understand, and I know many people whom I work with who don't think about consequences, and are less responsible than many 10-year-olds. After some point, people either get it or don't, but I think that inducing the trauma, however trivial in the big picture, of seeing their parents or big brother/sister in court, on the opposite side, will help many become more responsible and thoughtful who otherwise might not be.

>It's a tricky situation, most people will shy away from making children
>responsible for their actions in a great way, but opinions on when they are
>actually responsible vary immensely.

Yes. My position is simply that people (children included) are responsible when they choose to be, or when no one else is willing to be responsible for them any longer.

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The shape of his own future, now in his own hands.-- Johnny Clegg.