Re: Truth Machines and Open Networks

Yak Wax (
Thu, 19 Mar 1998 12:11:33 -0800 (PST)

John K Clark wrote:

> > every bit of information is tide to every other
> > bit of information. Change one piece of history
> > and you've got to change it all.
> I'd only need to do that if I wanted to make the
> network consistent and thereby useful, but not if
> I just wanted to fuck it up.

Okay, so I've got 2 Million bits of data inherently linked to each
other, and a system that works by following links and comparing data.
I'm afraid your new data wouldn't stand much of a chance if it weren't
correctly linked. It'd either never be discovered in the first place
or be ignored because it was orphaned from all the other data.

> > Besides, this is an autonomous meta network,
> > everything you do creates additional data.
> It creates contradictory data and a huge amount of
> it. All that crap must be examined with software
> tools, tools vulnerable to tampering.

Contradictory! Bits of data that say you just created these bits of
data. Even if you changed the name of the person who created them,
who cares? They're not properly linked, can't be found by software
agents, and have no effect on the network.

> > you can't hack in because it has nothing to hack
> > into (it's open, remember?).
> I remember, that's why It would be easy as pie to
> make the network useless.

Actually, open systems make it near impossible to do anything that is
damaging. As soon as you stop trying to keep people out you have to
look at the situation from an entirely different perspective. If
anyone can get into the system, then you don't want to let anyone do
damage. This calls for low-level security - building a system where
you *can't* do those things (not that doesn't let you.)

> Far from trying to destroy the data I would make
> thousands or millions of copies of it, all suitably
> mutated of course, and leave you the job of
> determining the truth.

Me! Noise only creates problems for you. Like, where are you putting
it all?

> If it's hard for me to find stuff on the network
> it's hard for everybody, so what's the point of the
> network?

Finding *that* piece of data you want to destroy is hard, the data is
entangled in many different locations and many other pieces of data.

> That's probably untrue and certainly irrelevant.
> The perfect world would be one where everybody and
> everything was open, except for me.

I'm still unsure as to what you would do with that 'advantage'.

> > There's are no network administrators, it's
> > completely distributed autonomous anarchy.
> If it can do that then it's no longer an autonomous
> network, it's an autonomous AI and all bets are off
> in predicting what it will decide to do with a
> fifth wheel like the human race.

Admin-less networks are being created now, and they don't use any AI.
They just don't have administrators.

> >But the data must be machine-readable.
> I don't see your point, cryptographic data is
> almost always machine-readable.

The joys of passing public keys around every time a piece of
information needs to be linked, read, moved, copied, annotated, etc.

> > For the sake of argument, let's say you managed
> > secret communication. Who would you send
> > communicate with?
> My banker.

Better make sure he doesn't use a computer when banking.

> "Here's the money I made from selling 26 tones of
> cocaine to children, don't pay taxes on any of it,
> just put it in a standard anonymous encrypted
> account."

So there's a point to a one-person monetary system now?

> "Tell your Russian friend that 7 tones of heroin is
> too much to pay for his H bomb, it's only 3
> megatons for goodness sake and it's not like he's
> the only one around selling nukes, I refuse to go
> higher than 6 tons of marijuana, take it or leave
> it."

You want weapons? The plans are on the network, and the location of
the materials. Suddenly the black market becomes a little less
profitable when everyone knows how to roll their own.

> > What can you steal from an open society?
> Money and power, and because of that it won't be
> open for long.

So you're waving your wads of encrypted dollar bills with your face
printed on the front. Why do they give a shit? It's like a caveman
taking his pebbles to the bank. And I'm not sure where you got this
power from, they only thing you know that they don't is yourself.
"What's John going to next?" - not much because his constantly hiding
from every computer, every door, every video, every street, every
road, and every person.

> > How can you bribe an open society?
> With money and power.

"Hi, I have money and power, give me more money and power, thank you"?

> > What have you got that they haven't?
> Money and power.

The money's useless, and the power... where did that come from exactly?

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