Re: ETHICS: The Marginalization of Humans and the Abortion Issue

den Otter (
Fri, 6 Mar 1998 13:08:35 +0100

> From: Mark Miloscia <>

> Morality and Values! I love this discussion.

Yes, so do I. The irrationality of some people never ceases to amaze me.

> Authoritarian regimes are directly at fault for allowing their people to die
in a
> horrible manner. The developed world (including all of us) is also at fault for
> allowing starvation and death to occur when they have the power (either
individually or
> through their government) to stop or mitigate it.

And why would the developed world be responsible for other regions' stupidity?
They were already a mess when the big bad white man came, you know. It's
not like some highly advanced culture got nipped in the bud, certainly not in
Africa. They live like we lived once. We moved on, they didn't. Who's fault is
that? OURS? Why doesn't the principle of personal responsibility for one's
actions apply to developing regions then?

> Two key questions. Should we individually or collectively value all human

No. Some lives (people) are obviously worth more than others (in the _real world_,
not Happyland or something).

> Do we have a (moral) responsiblity, individually or collectively, to prevent or
> human suffering and death?

No. Responsibility for your own actions will suffice.

> There is no doubt in my mind that most people would drop whatever they are
> and fly to Ethiopia or picket the US Capitol, do what ever it takes, and try to
> their spouse or sibling or parent or offspring if they were one of those starving
> statistics. Most people would think it strange (irresponsible even) if I
> that my wife was "...dying in some Ethopian hell-hole. Darn those Warlords, it's
> fault. Oh, by the way, did you see those Knicks last night, blew another game..."
> bet Ethiopia would be hip-deep in Marines if Hillary C. was lost somewhere

Of course you'd go trough more for someone you actually know and care about
than for some anonymous masses of an alien culture. That's rational. When
your resources are limited, you must by definition set priorities, and obviously
your friends and family rank a lot higher than some unknown person on the
other side of the globe who has almost nothing in common with you.

> However, my mom always taught me that "the good guys always win in
> the end" and my Christian faith also teaches me the same.

Wow! How do you manage to combine religious belief with transhumanism?

For the record, here's part of my ideology:


Abortion (pro choice, not squeamish about number of months of pregnancy).
Capital punishment (and "eye for an eye" in general).
Right to have duels.
Freedom of speech (not including slander).
Right to die (euthanasia).
Right to (cryo)preserve deceased people without their consent. They don't
know so they can't suffer. Decisions about revival can be made later, when
we have more knowledge about mental illness etc.
Right to keep and bear arms, and to use them in self-defense (with lethal
force, if necessary).
Right to enhance yourself physically and mentally (right to auto-evolve).
Right to use any kind of medical or recreational drug.
Right to do anything else you want as long as you don't harm any
members of your contract group (this is a group of people
who have chosen to co-operate for mutual benefit and have agreed
on certain rules to minimize problems -- the way a society should
be) against their will.


Murder, rape, theft, stalking, damage to property and other obviously harmful
acts commited against members of the contract group.

Taboos (things that cannot be discussed in a normal fashion) of any kind.
Sanctimoniousness (a hugely damaging force in society).