Re: Extropian country

Eugene Leitl (
Sat, 21 Feb 1998 18:55:52 +0300 (MSK)

On Fri, 20 Feb 1998, den Otter wrote:

> > [ virtual Extropia? ]
> All of the above is very useful, but not a substitute for an autonomous
> extropian nation. You might be relatively "free" while surfing the net,

It is more-or-less, and also a lot easier to implement. It can also be a
testbed for nonvirtual Extropia (which, for the record, I must consider a
yet another (and powerfully distracting at that) dream). Me, I'd just be
deliriously happy to survive the Singularity (i.e. having a continous
trajectory in persona space thru the Singularity). Btw, is the current ad
hoc Californian Extropians enclave not sufficient/is a natural segregation
focus? (Anybody in residence over there care to relate your experiences?)

> but you still live in the real world where you're pretty much at the
> mercy of the often whimsical government and "society". Furthermore,

I think the idealist escapist in you makes you gloss over the rough edges
far too easily. Unless a full-blown neoludd witchhunt is on (then
presenting an easy target is definitely not a good idea), the interference
of state can only be considered a minor (albeit definitely
resource-draining) nuisance. Yeah, it's not pretty, but it won't hinder
your plans enough to prevent the altogether. If yes, your plans may not
have been that robust after all.

> virtual networking is nice to chat and make initial contacts, but if you
> *really* want to get something done you'll still need get togeter

Does distributed project coordination, a focused newsfeed (time is money!)
and digicash transfer strike a vein? The importance of _direct_ matter
manipulation may be further diminished if we consider minimal telepresence
capability expected to become available in the next two decades, or so. In
any case you could purchase the services desired, albeit efficiency might
suffer. Of course this is a just another sterile Geekonia dream. So sue

> IRL. Besides, a new nation is *adventure*, an energizing inspiration to
> all, a great service (refuge from persecution) and a potential source

Also, it is a great resource sink, and just an invitation to having you
all conveniently extinguished (yes, chronic paranoia _can_ become a
lifestyle). Btw, anybody having a wager when we will see the first
(sub)tactical nuke use, and by whom? Similiar bets as to bioweapons'?.

> of considerable income (something this movement is in dire need of).

Judging from the cryonics movement (at least two instances?) and
Scientology dogma can be a great motivation for individual finance
resource accretion. Being a personal success beakon will make extropy look
like more than a yet another weird Californian cult. Imho. (And having ExI
not permanently teetering at the edge of bankruptcy (feel free to correct
me) should also help to increase the memefection rate somewhat).

> Founding a new nation gives a sense of direction to transhumanism,
> and it's an useful drill for the next logical step: migration to space.

By the time we are supposed to get hit by that fabled Singularity I'd
expect only a few 10 k persons in (mostly, cislunar) space, if at all. A
malignant Singularity will thus have an easy time to having your systems
perverted, when looking for minimax paths into space. Autistic fugitives
at the periphery ought to have a fairly good chance, though. Call me

> This should be possible if all pioneer groups interested in this combine
> their forces. Differences can always be settled once we're offplanet.

Oh yes, and my augmented hamster is building a wormhole drive.