Re: Justice is so revenge

Michael Lorrey (
Wed, 07 Jan 1998 20:16:27 -0500

Yak Wax wrote:
> Michael Lorrey <> wrote:
> > > I wasn't saying "Justice is Revenge" because I think revenge is a
> good
> > > form of justice, but because I think what many people call justice
> is
> > > simply revenge.
> >
> > Oh, well you are right there, but that doesn't make them right. Most
> > people think Bangladesh is somewhere in Africa. Never underestimate
> the
> > power of human stupidity.
> True. But I've yet to hear any description of justice that doesn't
> qualify as revenge.

See below. THe difference between justice and revenge is the same
difference between impartial examination of evidence and righteous

> > > I find nothing wrong with people cooperating to rid themselves of a
> > > common threat (in which ever way they see fit.) But the justice
> > > system goes beyond that, and creates a fixed set of threats which
> are
> > > apparently (whether you like it or not) for your own good. And I
> > > would argue that all "punishments" are revenge.
> >
> > Any judgement that does not a) provide proportionate compensation to
> the
> > victims, and b) rehabilitate those that are capable of being
> > rehabilitated, while eradicating those who are not from the gene pool,
> > is not justice.
> Two things: Proportionate compensation doesn't have to involve the
> criminal. If I need to defend myself from someone then rehabilitation
> is an option (although a difficult one.)

Where is the compensation to come from if not from the convict? Anything
else is not just.

> > it is reestablishing the stasis in existence prior to the use of
> > unjustified force.
> > A justified force in equal opposition reestablishes the prior state.
> > Justice.
> Revenge. You're using force against someone who you consider to be
> unjust. You can call it just or unjust all you want but the reason
> you want to reestablish prior state is because you thought it was
> unfair and you want revenge. When in fact it is neither fair nor
> unfair, it just is! Besides, reestablishing the prior state isn't at
> all extropian!

It sure is, if the new state is a socialistic totalatarian
antitechnological fundamental islamic one.

The big difference between justice and revenge is the role of passion,
emotion. I can very dispassionately state, beleive and practice a policy
of seeking redress and compensation for unjust confiscation and
violation, without being as blinded by emotions as many people get.
People who are vitimized, and are demanding the death penalty before the
trial begins are seeking revenge. Those who are impartial judges,
assuming innocence until judged guilty by a jury of peers, and then just
as swiftly have the convict shot are seeking justice. Big difference.
Those who seek revenge are righteous, and are thus prejudiced. THose who
seek justice are impartial until proven otherwise by an examination of
all of the relevant facts.

			Michael Lorrey
------------------------------------------------------------	Inventor of the Lorrey Drive
MikeySoft: Graphic Design/Animation/Publishing/Engineering
How many fnords did you see before breakfast today?