Re: Justice is so revenge

Yak Wax (
Wed, 7 Jan 1998 11:11:17 -0800 (PST)

Michael Lorrey <> wrote:

> > I wasn't saying "Justice is Revenge" because I think revenge is a
> > form of justice, but because I think what many people call justice
> > simply revenge.
> Oh, well you are right there, but that doesn't make them right. Most
> people think Bangladesh is somewhere in Africa. Never underestimate
> power of human stupidity.

True. But I've yet to hear any description of justice that doesn't
qualify as revenge.

> > I find nothing wrong with people cooperating to rid themselves of a
> > common threat (in which ever way they see fit.) But the justice
> > system goes beyond that, and creates a fixed set of threats which
> > apparently (whether you like it or not) for your own good. And I
> > would argue that all "punishments" are revenge.
> Any judgement that does not a) provide proportionate compensation to
> victims, and b) rehabilitate those that are capable of being
> rehabilitated, while eradicating those who are not from the gene pool,
> is not justice.

Two things: Proportionate compensation doesn't have to involve the
criminal. If I need to defend myself from someone then rehabilitation
is an option (although a difficult one.)

> > > I take your banana. When I'm not looking you steal the banana
> > > Justice.
> >
> > Unless there's plenty of other banana's around, in which case taking
> > my banana is vengeful. Otherwise I agree that you should satisfy
> > banana needs. But I don't see why we need to call that justice.
> it is reestablishing the stasis in existence prior to the use of
> unjustified force.
> A justified force in equal opposition reestablishes the prior state.
> Justice.

Revenge. You're using force against someone who you consider to be
unjust. You can call it just or unjust all you want but the reason
you want to reestablish prior state is because you thought it was
unfair and you want revenge. When in fact it is neither fair nor
unfair, it just is! Besides, reestablishing the prior state isn't at
all extropian!

> > > I take your banana. When I'm not looking you steal the banana
> > pour
> > > gasoline on me, set me on fire and laugh at my screams of agony
as I
> > burn
> > > alive and beg for death.
> > > Revenge.
> >
> > True.
> >
> At the same time, if you peacefully ask me for part of my banana,
and I
> refuse, that is acting justly within ones rights. If I refused, told
> to "go get a job you lousy slacker, you aren't worth a pot of piss,
> etc etc" and called a cop on you for being a vagrant panhandler,
> loitering and harassing pedestrians, that would be another thing
> entirely..

Have we met?

It may be bullshit, but it's inspired bullshit
Get your free address at