Re: Justice is so revenge

Michael Lorrey (
Tue, 06 Jan 1998 21:00:18 -0500

Yak Wax wrote:
> John K Clark <> wrote:
> > >They've committed the crime, you lost out, and any
> "justice" incurred
> > >beyond that point is by definition, revenge.
> >
> >
> > You're using private definitions, apparently for you the ASCII string
> > "revenge" means "justice" and "justice" means "revenge", that's your
> right,
> > one definition is not intrinsically better than another; however, for
> > effective communication a common definition is useful and that's why
> I use
> > the standard one.
> I wasn't saying "Justice is Revenge" because I think revenge is a good
> form of justice, but because I think what many people call justice is
> simply revenge.

Oh, well you are right there, but that doesn't make them right. Most
people think Bangladesh is somewhere in Africa. Never underestimate the
power of human stupidity.

> > Justice means finding whatever needs to be done to minimize most
> suffering in
> > most people. I admit that the best solution is often far from
> obvious, but at
> > least the problem is clear.
> I find nothing wrong with people cooperating to rid themselves of a
> common threat (in which ever way they see fit.) But the justice
> system goes beyond that, and creates a fixed set of threats which are
> apparently (whether you like it or not) for your own good. And I
> would argue that all "punishments" are revenge.

Any judgement that does not a) provide proportionate compensation to the
victims, and b) rehabilitate those that are capable of being
rehabilitated, while eradicating those who are not from the gene pool,
is not justice.

> > Revenge means entertainment obtained by causing pain in somebody
> else.
> >
> > Example:
> >
> > I take your banana. When I'm not looking you steal the banana back.
> > Justice.
> Unless there's plenty of other banana's around, in which case taking
> my banana is vengeful. Otherwise I agree that you should satisfy your
> banana needs. But I don't see why we need to call that justice.

it is reestablishing the stasis in existence prior to the use of
unjustified force.
A justified force in equal opposition reestablishes the prior state.

> > I take your banana. When I'm not looking you steal the banana back,
> pour
> > gasoline on me, set me on fire and laugh at my screams of agony as I
> burn
> > alive and beg for death.
> > Revenge.
> True.

At the same time, if you peacefully ask me for part of my banana, and I
refuse, that is acting justly within ones rights. If I refused, told you
to "go get a job you lousy slacker, you aren't worth a pot of piss, etc
etc etc" and called a cop on you for being a vagrant panhandler,
loitering and harassing pedestrians, that would be another thing

			Michael Lorrey
------------------------------------------------------------	Inventor of the Lorrey Drive
MikeySoft: Graphic Design/Animation/Publishing/Engineering
How many fnords did you see before breakfast today?