Re: Protean Self-Transformation

Michael Lorrey (
Mon, 31 Mar 1997 15:15:56 -0500

Gregory Houston wrote:
> Eugene Leitl wrote:
> > A perfect simulation of the photosynthesis process won't feed anyone in
> > the real world directly. Yet ANN-controlled agents moving in a spatial
> > ALife simulation, looking for food and enemies look very much alive to
> > me. Primitive, yet clearly alive.
> Eugene, I found your dialogue informative, but we have a major
> discrepancy in our judgement of what is real. Alife is as real to me as
> is someone being killed in a television show. It is *artificial*. Thats
> why they call it *artificial* life. It is not real. If I am to be
> uploaded into a computer I don't want *artificial* emotions. I want
> emotions that I can really feel and experience. I would not accept a
> conceptual abstraction of emotions that merely effected and did not
> affect me.
> In your dialogue you refer to "Alife" rather than "Artificial life". I
> know this is common practice, but there might be another level of denial
> involved.

With all due respect Greg, I think that you have a bit of denial here as
to what Alife feels. Since we are simulating creatures of instinct,
which react to stimuli, then, Alife has really no distinction from
biolife. Animals merely react to input via sensory nerves as pre
programmed by evolved instincts. There is absoulutely no difference,
unless you are an adherent to the Gaia theology. What we are currently
simulating is merely at the level of animals operating on their lizard
evolved cortex, over time, being able to reach higher orders of
simulation will eventually make us able to "simulate" human behavior and
reasoning. At which point, A-Greg will debate with Greg over who is real
and who is not real......

			Michael Lorrey
------------------------------------------------------------		Inventor of the Lorrey Drive

Mikey's Animatronic Factory My Own Nuclear Espionage Agency (MONEA) MIKEYMAS(tm): The New Internet Holiday Transhumans of New Hampshire (>HNH) ------------------------------------------------------------ #!/usr/local/bin/perl-0777---export-a-crypto-system-sig-RC4-3-lines-PERL @k=unpack('C*',pack('H*',shift));for(@t=@s=0..255){$y=($k[$_%@k]+$s[$x=$_ ]+$y)%256;&S}$x=$y=0;for(unpack('C*',<>)){$x++;$y=($s[$x%=256]+$y)%256; &S;print pack(C,$_^=$s[($s[$x]+$s[$y])%256])}sub S{@s[$x,$y]=@s[$y,$x]}