Re: Universal Schelling points (was SPORT: Ready? . . . Break!)

Michael Lorrey (
Mon, 10 Feb 1997 18:50:04 -0500 wrote:
> Greg Burch wrote:
> >> Extropy Institute should consider selection and publishing
> >> of [rendezvous] sites . . . to be a high priority.
> Anders Sandberg replied:
> > [H]ow to choose these . . . .?
> > They obviously have to be reachable and in some sense natural.
> Sounds like we need some Schelling points! In other words, to explicate this
> game theory concept to the uninitiated, we need cooridination devices that
> independent agents will choose without prior consultation. An example of a
> Schelling point: If your friend told you to meet her in Paris, but did not
> say where, you would probably head for the Eiffel tower.
> I take Greg to suggest we avoid the need for Schelling points by choosing
> meeting cooridinates beforehand--a great strategy so far as it goes, but one
> that for obvious reasons might not work for all of the human diaspora.
> Anders suggested Schelling points based on the sun's relation to the galatic
> core. Using the Earth to derive a Schelling point seems pretty reasonable
> for humans--but only if they remember their origins! So here, too, we might
> still face a cooridination problem.
> So I'm led to ask: Were you an intelligence wandering free and lonely in the
> galaxy, where would you head to meet others? What, in other words,
> constitutes a universal Schelling point?

Pulsars each have their own frequency, so each is unique.

ALso: A convention center orbiting the Cygnus X binary system.

A more nearterm convention spot: Copernicus Crater, 2006, as was
previously discussed on the >H list last year....

> I offer a tentative answer: The point where gravitational forces of the
> universe sum to zero--galatic center, if you will.

Since the universe is theoretically circular, i.e. if you travel in a
straight line you eventually return to where you started, then our
universal "center" is right here, which would also fit, since its all
relative anyways, a convention of trans and post humans would be at the
center of their diaspora, Earth.

Now considering that inside a black hole, the gravitational forces are
so great that the gravity of the rest of the universe is infinitesimally
small, that couls also be the closest thing to a "center" of the
universe, even though the inside is supposedly no longer part of this
universe....hmmmmmm. Possibly Cygnus X would have a hall for virtual
beings just above the event horizon, which would be the closest you
could get without actually leaving the universe. Funny, the point
closest to the "edge" of the universe is also closest to its "center".
> Lastly, I note that if we can figure out the universal Schelling point, we
> might discover that our alien peers have already started meeting there.
> Anyone have access to a decent-sized radio observatory?

No but I would say that the event horizon would be the universal meeting
point, as it allows extreme time dilation, allowing the inhabitants to
live to the end of the universe, and possibly through to the next one if
it eventually collapses, or to all travel into the next universe through
the hole that may be created by the singularity they are orbiting. In
this case, One would have to seek out black holes that have beacons
orbiting them to invite passerby to join the party. Also, given this
theory, might radio astronomers find advanced civilizations broadcasting
from blackholes at extremely low (i.e. redshifted) frequencies? Perhaps
we need to find black holes that are far enough away or large enough to
have quiet natural EM bands redshifted to be in synch with those bands
that penetrate an oxygen atmosphere? Pehaps with unusual EM bands?


Michael Lorrey ------------------------------------------------------------ President Northstar Technologies Agent Inventor of the Lorrey Drive

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