Re: MEMETICS: The Triumph of Reason

The Low Willow (
Sun, 19 Jan 1997 20:47:41 -0800 (PST)

James Roger wrote:
The strength of these bad memes is more apparent than actual. By
definition, a "bad" meme is one that at some fundamental level is
incorrect, inadequate, or counterproductive. No matter how apparently

Really? Another definition of bad meme could be that it interferes with
my goals. Dogmatism and conformity could be bad for me but good for
most other people. Or to blend this with your definition:
counterproductive of what? Dogmatism and conformity might interfere
with my intellectual interests but enhance my survival as part of a

On Jan 20, 2:31am, "David Musick" wrote:

} Dan Fabulich brought up the concern that dogmatic people,

} their goals. Rationality and non-dogmatism are attractive to people, such as
} ourselves, because the ideas *work*. That is the whole *point* of them, and

Which begs the question of why other people are irrational and

} A group of dogmatic people may be very *committed* to their ideas, but if
} their ideas are faulty, that will be their downfall. In the real world, one

What if they're led by someone who is rational, and serve her goals? As
times change she changes her goals, and leads theirs to match. By
definition the followers won't contest the situation, and it seems to
work for her. One might even think that it would have been in her
interest originally not to spread rationality but obedience to her.
While you're trying to spread reason to the masses, _her_ masses are
stomping you out, and being successful because they can draw on her
rational ideas.

} Our ideas our superior because they work. And they work because that is the
} criteria for them to be our ideas. If they didn't work, we would discard
} utilize the best ideas available. If others have better strategies than us,
} we adopt their strategies and reap that success also.

I think Fabulich's point was that dogmatism seems to work too.

} though many doom-sayers say things are getting worse, all the evidence I see
} indicates that everything is getting better. People *are* becoming more

I think things are mostly staying the same. Some improvement, some
loss. No major improvement.

Merry part,
-xx- Damien R. Sullivan X-) <*>

For example, Steve Jobs lost control of Apple. "The best-laid plans
of mice and men... "