From: Brian D Williams (talon57@well.com)
Date: Mon Jan 21 2002 - 15:25:39 MST
>From: "Dickey, Michael F" <michael_f_dickey@groton.pfizer.com>
>But, the primary question is, CAN a person DECIDE to quit, or do
>they have no control over their actions?
Later stage addicts do not appear to be able to quit.
>So a person who enjoys drinking a lot of alcohol, even though he
>has no genetic predisposition to 'alcoholism' is not an alcoholic?
The defining point of an alcoholic is that they cannot/will not
quit.
There are those hoping to reduce this to a definable medical test.
>I would guess that Alcoholism, at the least, can be
>psychologically addictive as well physically addictive. I guess
>it depends on how you define alcoholism. Which leads to my next
>question, how do you define alcoholism.
Most things that are physically addicting are psychologically
addicting as well.
In fact I know of no such case where this is not true.
>D) someone who has this particular genetic variation
This was the closest.
Alcoholism is a matter of degree.
>Can non-alcoholics also drink significant quantities that would
>kill other non-alcoholics?
Most people cannot ingest sufficient quantities without getting
ill.
>Or is that your definition of an alcoholic, someone who
>*can* drink a lot of alcohol and not die? (whatever that
>arbitrary amount is)
No.
>Here we get back to what alcoholism is. Is it
>C)about behavior AND genetics?
As I indicated earlier, once someone is diagnosed as alcoholic,
they have a moral obligation to quit. The fact that it is a disease
does not excuse this.
>>"This is incorrect."
>What is incorrect, that we can decide to stop eating, or that we
>can decide to stop doing things that we are addicted to?
It is incorrect that all addicts can stop.
>Can an alcoholic choose to stop drinking alcohol of his on free
>will?
It is the refusal to stop that usually leads to a diagnosis of
alcoholism.
>Conversely, can some unfortunate person afflicted with MS 'choose'
>to no longer be afflicted with MS?
I had three independant experts tell me I had MS and would never
walk again. I told them to take a flying leap, and through self
rehab I have completely recovered.
Miracle?
>that I agree to, the physiological mechanisms that contribute to
>addictions and the sociological and behavioral conditions that
>contribute to addictions are indeed very complex. But at the
>heart of the matter, people choose to do everything they do, and
>an alcoholic can choose to stop drinking (and many have, unless
>you define alcoholic as someone who can not choose to stop
>drinking) just as a heroin addict can choose to not use heroin or
>a cigarette smoker can choose to not smoke anymore.
As I said the inability to stop is a defining element.
>>>IMHO that is...
>>"I'm dealing in facts, not opinions."
>Sounded like a lot of opinions to me.
>"Alcoholism ...is a genetic predisposition to a substance"
>"You cannot become an alcoholic without the requisite genetics"
>But in either case, I only added the 'IMHO' to encourage a
>peacefull exchange of ideas, and did not expect it to be used as
>a spring board for an argumentum ad hominem.
You'll have to point out the ad hominem, I don't see it.
There are numerous sites that contain the facts I've indicated.
Alcoholism is defined as a disease by the AMA as well as AA.
www.medicine.net.com/Script/Main/Art.asp?articlekey=8709
is a good start.
Brian
Member:
Extropy Institute, www.extropy.org
National Rifle Association, www.nra.org, 1.800.672.3888
SBC/Ameritech Data Center Chicago, IL, Local 134 I.B.E.W
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