From: Randall Randall (wolfkin@freedomspace.net)
Date: Wed Jan 16 2002 - 15:18:22 MST
On Wednesday 16 January 2002 11:35, John Clark wrote:
> Randall Randall <wolfkin@freedomspace.net> Wrote:
> >For some things, that's [creativity] a straightforward process,
> >hence computer-generated music, etc.
This quote is wrong. It should be "...things, that's
[deciding what to keep] a straightforward process...".
Creativity itself is mixing information you have to create
new combinations.
> Nothing could be easier than cranking out avantguard music or
> poetry because those "arts" have no rules so it's impossible
> to make a mistake.
It's true that deciding what parts to throw away is easier when
there are fewer rules, or, at least, that no one can say you got it
wrong in such a case.
> Yes, show me a program that can crank out mainstream children's
> stories or even pornography and I'll show you a sentient program.
> I don't demand the stories be particularly good just that the author
> is not suspected of being retarded of psychotic.
I disagree greatly that the act of writing a story requires a person.
I do think it is more likely that a person will write an interesting story.
> >How, exactly, did you learn that animals (which, except
> >
> >for some primates, can't let you know directly) are aware of
> > themselves?
>
> Nothing can let you know directly they are aware of themselves, so how
> did I know they were conscious? I guessed, just as I guessed that you
> are sentient and that I am not the only conscious being in the universe.
But since they aren't providing the cues that I am (e.g., they aren't
holding conversations about conversations with you), I'd like to know
what evidence you have that they really are aware of themselves in
a way that, for instance, a rock isn't.
> > Response is not self-awareness.
>
> I strongly disagree.
Are you prepared to assert the self-awareness of a plant that
turns its leaves toward light? It's having a chemical and physical
response to its surroundings.
-- Randall Randall <wolfkin@freedomspace.net> Crypto key: www.freedomspace.net/~wolfkin/crypto.text On a visible but distant shore, a new image of man; The shape of his own future, now in his own hands.-- Johnny Clegg.
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