Re: MEDIA: NOVA on Gamma Ray Bursters

From: Robert J. Bradbury (
Date: Thu Jan 10 2002 - 00:49:13 MST

On Thu, 10 Jan 2002, John Clark wrote:

> Considering that the universe is about 15 billion years old and we
> only invented the steam engine 200 years ago and the computer
> 50 then we must conclude that if ET exists he is almost certainly
> more advanced than we are. If there was a civilization a billion or
> even a million years in advanced of our own then the universe should
> look engineered. It doesn't.

Assumes facts not in evidence. Assumes that there is some reason
to engineer the universe. This is an entirely an engineer-morphic
perspective. Because sensor technology seems likely to exceed
travel technology (it consumes less energy) it seems likely
that you will know what is out there before you can go there.
Even a single example of an ATC that hasn't colonized
everything is going to put a crimp in any expansion plans.
You are going to think long and hard about *why* they haven't
the colonized everything? (9th dimension beings lurking
along interstellar travel routes, no colonization
effort can provide a decent ROI to investors, there
is no point to playing location hopping -- constantly
avoiding GRB -- best to leave the neighborhood entirely,
due to speed-of-light delays, to advance, civilizations
must not get bigger -- they must get smaller, etc. etc.)

You can assert that if ET exists he is more advanced.

You CANNOT assume a civilization a million or billion years
more advanced would be engineering the "universe". It may
seem like a nice idea from where we sit -- but they may
have found better ways.

Furthermore -- Marvin Minsky pointed out *decades* ago
(in a conversation with Dyson in a conference with many
leading astronomers) that the most advanced civilizations
would only radiate heat energy at slightly above cosmic
microwave background radiation temperature. Show me the
evidence that we have *any* ability to detect concentrated
sources with such temperatures!

My papers on this are starting to be a year or more old
at this point folks. Get a clue and *go* read the material.


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