From: Robert Coyote (firstname.lastname@example.org)
Date: Wed Jan 02 2002 - 23:54:25 MST
re:"Whilst the availability of guns in Chicago has become more
difficult, it is no difficulty for a determined individual, particularly a
criminal, to simply cross state lines & purchase a gun in a state with more
lax ownership & sales restrictions."
Ergo said states with more lax ownership & sales restrictions should have
even more gun violence as well?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Neil Blanch" <email@example.com>
To: "Extropian mailing list (E-mail)" <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 7:22 PM
Subject: some US observations & notes
: In V6#364 "Some US observations & notes" Brian D Williams said:
: "Here in Chicago, handguns are completely illegal and have been for 20
: By the logic of the antigun folks, Chicago should by now be completely
: of handguns and violent crimes like murder should be non-existent. The
: is that there are millions of handguns in the Chicago, 650+ murders this
: year, and gun related crime is an everyday occurrence in certain
: Yet the fact is (as any prosecutor here can tell you) is that the first
: thing that happens when an offender gets brought to court is that the
: weapons charges are usually dropped and the case is plea bargained."
: Brian, I can think of a few reasons why Chicago's crime situation is so
: 1. Whilst the availability of guns in Chicago has become more
: difficult, it is no difficulty for a determined individual, particularly a
: criminal, to simply cross state lines & purchase a gun in a state with
: lax ownership & sales restrictions. Gun restrictions will only really work
: if they are applied on a federal (or better yet international) level.
: Piece-meal approaches to gun restriction only seem to favour those who
: use such weapons for nefarious purposes.
: 2. The current US system of plea-bargaining seems to favour the
: more hardened criminal. Example: a street level dealer (or "runner") is
: arrested. It is highly unlikely that he will have worthwhile information
: his superiors & it is unlikely that he will be able to effect much change
: his charges by plea bargaining. Someone higher up the chain is arrested &
: because they have more details on the overall supply system, they can
: effectively plea bargain a more serious supply charge away in exchange for
: that information. This is one of the reasons that the majority of people
: jail for drug offences (for example) are in for relatively minor offences
: (mandatory "3 strikes" sentencing doesn't help much either), & the big
: sharks are still out in the community, doing maximum harm.
: I cannot claim to know what the best solution to the guns/crime problem in
: the US. The issues involved are difficult, the pressure from various
: interest groups so intense & the size of the problem so large, that no
: solution presents itself. To my mind the gun availability issue plays a
: major role in the problems that the US faces, however it is only one of
: issues that will need to be addressed if the US is to curb the horrific
: of violent crime that afflicts the majority of the united states.
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