Re: Practical self-defense in the UK - a question

From: Russell Whitaker (
Date: Mon Jan 22 2001 - 15:44:03 MST

>From: Michael Lorrey <>
>"estropico >" wrote:
> >
> > Given the ban on handguns in the UK, does anyone know what one is
>allowed to
> > carry, without breaking the law? Apparently it depends on the local
> > force - for instance, extendable batons are ok in some areas, but not in
> > others and I could not find any further details.
> > Any info would be welcome.
>Nothing. Pen knifes are considered weapons, as is pepper spray, tasers,
>batons, etc. You have no right to defend yourself in Britain, and will
>be prosecuted if you are successful in doing so. If you have any martial
>arts training for which there is any documentation or if you admit to it
>(video rental records might even be considered 'training' if you rent
>kung fu movies) then your bare hands will be considered deadly weapons.


Even in England, I find this astounding, this bit about
martial arts training there.

The gun and knife situation is dire indeed. A lot's changed
in the last decade alone. Prior to my having left London
8 years ago, I had for the latter part of my 3-year stint
there been a member of the Imperial College non-staff shooting
club. That would not be possible now.

Non-firearms martial arts in England have not been banned
outright, to my knowledge. The art I practice (outside of
"gun-do"), bujinkan budo taijutsu, has some of its most
serious and well-respected students in England; Southampton
U. has an active training group that I know of; see:


You can ask questions about carriage of knives and such

Oh, and I just found the jewel:
" Kingdom"
That lists Peter King's dojo in South Croyden. I really wish
I'd known about the Bujinkan when I lived in London: he's one of
the most respected teachers in the art. I know: I lived
and trained a year in Tokyo until recently, and even the
Japanese talk of him very respectfully.

Peter King
Baptist Church Hall; Brighton Road, UK;
South Croydon, London
Monday 7 pm - 9pm/phone: 01459 102063

Regardless of the dread stories of being prejudiced against
if you have to defend yourself with training you've
acquired, train anyway. Better to have it if you need it.

I notice that two of you in this thread are Italian.
I'm not personally familiar with any Italian teachers
by name, but I was impressed with the fighting spirit
of the Italian visitor students I met last year
in Japan; maybe you can start by checking here:



>As in the ancient chinese story, where the penalies for being late for
>work and for revolt were both death, all this means is that you should
>carry whatever you want, don't get caught, and don't report any
>instances of defending yourself. Put your assailant down, get away from
>the scene, destroy your weapons and all clothes you wore at the scene
>(including shoes), change your haircut and shaving pattern, and buy
>yourself an alibi from a trustworthy friend or two.

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