RE: Programming project required

From: Terry Donaghe (
Date: Mon Jan 22 2001 - 13:02:13 MST

As someone who makes a living off of Microsoft, I'd like to write a few

1. There are a LOT of Visual Basic and ASP (Active Server Pages)
programmers. I think there's more VB programmers than any other type in
the world.

2. An awful lot of these programmers make a lot more money once they move
into VB and/or ASP programming from whatever jobs they had in the past.

3. Most (but not all - I'd say about 70-80%) of these folks are not what
most Unix/Linux/Java guys think of as programmers. Most have no computer
science background. They have no concepts of object oriented programming
and for what they're doing, they don't need it. These guys and gals solve
specific problems for businesses. They may not get paid as much as a senior
Java developer, but $45K - $65K is not unheard of.

4. With #3 in mind, it is safe to say that 70-80% of these people would
have a difficult time getting a "real" programming job and thus might be
stuck in the dreary, low paying job they had previously.

5. I know this can't be a forgone conclusion, but it seems to me that
Microsoft has created a fantastic opportunity for millions of intelligent,
yet non-computer science trained people to make much more money than they
could if Microsoft didn't exist. These people contribute greatly to the
economy, and I think the world is better off with them.

Most of the Visual Basic developers that I know are not computer science
trained. Most easily found a job after doing a bit of work at home and for
free for others. Many have no college degrees. I am aware, though, of many
successful business projects that are implemented solely with Visual Basic
and other Microsoft products.

Perhaps I'm an idiot, or a blind sheep following an EVIL company, but by
working for companies which use Microsoft software I am now earning more
than SEVEN times as much money this year than I did in 1995. My wife, who
has no college degree, is making more than $50 an hour doing contract
programming with Microsoft technologies. That's money that we're using to
buy a new house, have lots of cool toys, and ensure that our son gets the
best private education available in Phoenix, AZ.

I know of a LOT of more people with similar stories. Scott McNealy and
Larry Ellison have created no where NEAR the opportunity to achieve this
level of success as Bill Gates has - directly or indirectly. I don't love
Microsoft or Bill Gates, but I do respect them for the opportunities they
have given me.

> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> []On Behalf Of Harvey Newstrom
> Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:45 AM
> To:
> Subject: Re: Programming project required
> >On Sun, 21 Jan 2001, Max More wrote:
> >>
> >> I don't share your intense hatred of all things
> Microsoft. Far from it.
> >
> >
> >Most people would agree with you. I personally don't have
> any sort of
> >knee-jerk animosity towards Microsoft. However as a
> software developer, I
> >am exposed to parts of the Microsoft world that are very
> objectionable on
> >many different levels. Unless you write software though,
> you aren't likely
> >to see or understand these strong objections.
> This is true. Microsoft plays dirty tricks to sabotage the
> competition. Most people will not have debugged Microsoft's stuff
> enough to figure out what is going on inside. Not to start an
> anti-Microsoft discussion, but here are some examples:
> - font smoother in Windows serves smooth fonts to Internet Explorer
> and jagged fonts to Netscape
> - server serves Internet Explorer first but delays serving Netscape
> - server refuses to give Netscape common gif or jpeg formats, but
> serves an error message that Netscape can't display these images but
> Internet Explorer can
> - takes control of Novell printer and then when finished, gives it to
> other Windows systems first, delaying the Novell printer queue until
> all windows systems are done printing
> - writes invalid HTML code that fails to work in other browsers, then
> extends Internet Explorer to read the invalid code so it works
> - bought Apple technology to create Windows, and then claimed that
> Windows 3.0 was not the same Windows they built with Apple source code
> - promised IBM Windows technology for OS/2 including all future
> versions of Windows, but then claimed Windows 95 was not the same as
> Windows.
> - used open-source Kerberos source code while promising the open
> source foundation they will publish their source code, then published
> source code but only to people who sign an agreement not to compete
> with Microsoft
> - set cheap prices for servers as long as they did not support
> Netscape or link to Netscape's site, those that did had to pay much
> higher prices *retroactively* as a punishment for supporting the
> competition
> - put delays in Excel for Macintosh so it would run slower than Excel
> for Windows
> - gives developers degraded system calls while their internal
> software developers use better system calls so competitor software
> can never work as fast or as well as Microsoft products
> - Java deliberately breaks security rules so that they can
> add more features
> - Java deliberately checked platform so that it would act differently
> for Windows than other systems
> - signed agreement not to change the Java syntax one bit, but then
> used tricks to act differently with the same syntax such that the
> same command would act different for different systems or situations
> Most people who dislike Microsoft do so because they support open and
> fair competition. The way to win in the market should be to build a
> better product, not sabotage a competitor's product. Sometimes it
> seems that Microsoft puts more work into sabotaging other products
> rather than making their product better.
> --
> Harvey Newstrom <>

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