Re: More important 12th question? (was Re: 11 questions about the Universe)

From: scerir (
Date: Sat Jan 20 2001 - 16:24:30 MST

If you can ask another intelligent being
³what is salt like for you?² and have it
reply in a way that you know it is not lying
and that its representation of salt is the same
(or not the same) as yours, you will have effed
and will really know that that being is conscious
much like you are, at least as far as what both
of your conscious representation of sodium chloride
are like.
Traditional abstract science must undergo a kind
of paradigm shift, considering more than the abstract
cause and effect, before it can deal with the nature
of these subjective phenomenal qualities.
It must also be looking for the very real phenomenal
and emotional qualities of whatever is going on in our
mind to give us such sensations. These sensations are
much more than simple cause and effect.
This theory predicts that there really are phenomenal
colors, smells, sounds, warmthŠ or pain, it¹s just
that none of these are beyond our senses,
and not qualities of what our senses are observing,
as most people seem to believe.
(B. Allsop in: )

Long time ago Cicero wrote the same story.
Cicero pointed out that there are things
("qualia sunt .....") which our senses feel
directly, and things ("talia .....") which
are beyond our senses or our senses feel
*indirectly*, such as "that is white",
"this is sweet", "that is sonorous",
"this is fragrant", "this is bitter".
Atqui qualia sunt haec,
quae sensibus percipi dicimus,
talia secuntur ea,
quae non sensibus ipsis percipi dicuntur,
sed quodam modo sensibus,
ut haec: 'illud est album,
hoc dulce, canorum illud,
hoc bene olens, hoc asperum'.
-Cicero (Academicorum Priorum, Liber Secundus)


Qualia from Hilbert space?
-Can we feel the Hilbert space?
-Yes, Virginia, we can feel the Hilbert space.
 It's called intuition.
Let me try to explain........................

This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Mon May 28 2001 - 09:56:21 MDT