RE: GUNS/TOOLS: Magazines vs. calibers

From: Joe Dees (
Date: Mon Jan 15 2001 - 18:11:29 MST

('binary' encoding is not supported, stored as-is) >Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 10:11:52 -0500
>From: "Michael S. Lorrey" <>
>Subject: GUNS/TOOLS: Magazines vs. calibers
Oh, HOL-low points! (pant!) Pe-ne-TRAY-shun! (moan!) MUZ-zle ve-lo-ci-tee! (whimper!) High CAL-li-bre! (groan!)
Umm-hand me a hankie, pleeze?
Get this shit offa here and on to exi-freedom where it belongs!
And don't EVEN say that you'd prefer it there, and then post it here! Tha't not only hypocrisy, but obvious and transparent hypocrisy.
Show some fucking stopping power of your own and restrain yourself!
>"Michael M. Butler" wrote:
>> Mike Lorrey said some stuff, which I quote out of order and interject
>> comments on:
>> > Read gun magazines and books,
>> > become one of those guys at the grocery story people look leery at for
>> > reading 'those gun magazines'
>> Warning! Warning!
>> Unfortunately, most gun magazines exist, like most car magazines, to
>> sell copies of themselves and thus to sell advertising. No matter how
>> knowledgeable a single author sounds, do not swallow any "party line"
>> whole. Be skeptical. Keep learning.
>> > If stopping power is what you are interested, dropping a perp
>> > immediately with little chance of him continuing an assault, then you'll
>> > want to use a larger caliber pistol round, from 9mm, .40, .45 ACP, .45
>> > Special, .45 Long Colt, .44 magnum, .454 Casull, or .480 Ruger. Hollow
>> > point ammo, especially +P powered hollow point like Cor-Bon is highly
>> > effective in stopping a perp, but oddly enough less likely to kill them
>> > from wounds than a small caliber like .22 (because they don't go into
>> > shock as easily from smaller calibers, they bleed easier).
>> Umm. Well. *Ahem*. The Marshall and Sanow notion of the ultrafast light
>> projectile in larger calibers sure seems to sell a lot of magazines.
>The problem with ultrafast is penetration. Ball penetrates the most, and
>is most likely to hurt someone else, while hollow points 'star' out and
>transfer more energy to the first target hit, are less likely to go
>completely through a large target, etc. The higher velocity a projectile
>carries the more likely it is to pass through the target, which is why
>there is something to be said for .45 ACP, which is heavy and subsonic,
>and while it stops perps well it is statistically less likely to kill.
>The only ultrafast thats really effective are high velocities as seen
>with .223 type or higher hollow point rounds where the bullet almost
>completely disintegrates. Of course, they don't make pistols for such
>> > At this
>> > point, 9mm and .40 Liberty are the primary self defense calibers, with
>> > .45 ACP and .44 magnum close behind. .454 Casull is a powerhouse round
>> > that only a well built man over 6 feet can really handle with ease.
>> > Now, if concealability is your thing, then you could look at a .25, .32,
>> > or .357 caliber gun. SeeCamp, and some clone companies make some decent
>> > very compact .32 caliber autoloaders that fit in the pocket of one's
>> > khakis with little or no 'printing' or sag.
>> With smaller calibers, placing shots properly is even more important.
>Yes, however, since most all self defense situations take place at less
>than 10 yards range, its not primarily important, of course, I've seen
>police videos of cops emptying entire mags at that range without hitting
>the suspect, so dealing with stress while shooting is a big factor that
>all the range time in the world won't help. Smaller caliber guns are
>generally used for 'up the nose' ranges, in any event.

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