Re: META: Watch the subject lines, people!

From: Neal Marin (
Date: Mon Feb 14 2000 - 18:53:51 MST

--- KPJ <> wrote:
> It appears as if Neal Marin
> <> wrote:
> |
> |--- Sasha Chislenko <> wrote:
> |> You are big boys and girls already, you should
> not
> |> hide from
> |> parents anymore with printed word "sex".
> |
> |*ahem* I don't know about everyone else on this
> list,
> |but I'm fourteen and five feet short
> You forgot to add the clause "and am located in a
> territory where the local
> legislation and culture considers humans of that age
> minors". In others, that
> is not necessarily the case, you know.

Yes, I am aware of that.

> Length is irrelevant, as technology can always
> correct length insufficiency.
I was responding to "you are big boys and girls
now"...a joke. And to my knowledge, there isn't that
technology...yet. I could of course be wrong. If you
know of any, that would be interesting.
> |>And you
> |> should have
> |> brought up your own kids to be free (otherwise,
> why
> |> the hell
> |> did you produce them?).
> |I didn't know people produced children; I thought
> they
> |gave birth to them.
> The "giving birth" method, the traditional method,
> is not necessarily the
> sole method of offspring production.
> Let me assure you that the parents actually and
> definitely _produce_ the
> offspring from their gametes, even though the phrase
> "giving birth" might
> indicate that it somehow just ``happens'' or that
> the local god visits
> young brides and makes them pregnant. If this fact
> offends you, feel free
> to ignore it (the fact will not go away, however).

*grin* you have a point there.

> [...]
> |It is pretty much naturally engrained into parents
> |that they need to protect their children from
> certain
> |things, sex being one of them. It is a social thing
> |more than a natural thing, I think, but one that is
> |none the less very present. I know; often enough I
> see
> |my parents hastily switching channels when my
> little
> |sister enters the room.
> The American obsession with sex appeared very late
> in history. There exists
> no proof of "naturally engrained" parents to protect
> their children from sex.
> In fact, the opposite has been mainly the norm
> throughout history.
> I suggest you control your historical and scientific
> sources.

*ahem* Did I even *MENTION* historical references? I
presumed that my statment would be taken in the
here-and-now, not dredged up the 1950's and
beforehand. I DO know my history...and I do know how
sex was thought of in america before the cultural
revolution of the sixties. And did I say
naturally-engrained? I meant socially. As in American
society. And if you noticed in the sentence below, I
stated:"It is a social thing
more than a natural thing, I think" and in no way did
I mean "all cultures".

> Why should the American obsession with sex define
> the moral of the world?

Was I defining the moral of the world? If so, I was
unaware that I was doing so... I believe that I
mentioned within *my* rant soemthing about how in
other societies it is not thought of the same. In
fact, I did.

> OK, so you have a nation with weird sexual mores..
> Why should *I* care?
I was replying to another post.

> In *this* country we have sex education for kids in
> school. So? Big deal.
We have it in some of the schools where I live, too...
it just doesn't happen to be at mine.

> Should we stop discussing beer so our brethren in
> Saudi-Arabia, where ethanol
> is a controlled substance, will not become
> imprisoned?

I don't know, should we? Personally, I wouldn't...

> Should we stop discussing politics so our brethren
> in random dictatorships,
> where discussing politics makes you an enemy of the
> State, will not become
> imprisoned, tortured, and killed?
> We have to draw a line somewhere. I say we should
> do it here and now.
> Q: What can we discuss if any sundry sepcial
> circumstance of some weird local
> custom and even weirder local laws are taken into
> account?
> This censorship-related meme would have little
> significance if it not happened
> to exists in a nation with a planet-wide military
> force armed with nuclear
> weapons, and an extremely well-oiled propaganda
> apparatus to further its memes.

mmm....sounds like you don't like america all that
well. Can't say I blame can've never heard
*my* rant on america's over-funded military, have you?
No...I don't think I've posted that on extropians.
Either way, it's a double-pointed barb...

> Thus, any weird meme from the U.S. can easily
> propagate around the planet in
> no time, up to and including such highlights as The
> A-Team, Oprah Winfrey,
> root beer, and marshmallows.

A pity...I've never liked either Oprah Winfrey or
marshmallows. Perhaps my history has been neglected in
that I've never heard of the 'A-team'.

> Remember various previous weird meme complexes which
> have swept around:
> o ``We must stop masturbation! It makes you
> feeble-minded and blind!''

If you've read the Meme Machine, there's a section on
why that complexe might have developed. That doesn't
make it any less insane, of course.

> Never has so sadistic machinery been generated by
> mankind to put
> on and around tender body parts of children to
> ``save'' them.
> o ``We must save our race from bad elements!''
> Holocaust in Nazi Germany, naturally. But also
> sterilization and
> active euthanasia in lots of countries, incl.
> Scandinavia and
> Australia.
 again it's fairly well explained in the Meme
machine... one of the many bad meme's
affected other countries as well....the Tutsis
massacre of the Bahutu...or was it vice versa? I've
never been able to find much about that...I supppose
it's censorship. I do know that America didn't lift a
finger during that.
> o ``We must save people from drugs!''
> War on Drugs, naturally. The resources used to
> generate the police
> state could have been used to control real crime
> (violence, rape,
> murder, roobbings, burglary, etc.).

I know. That one's completely senseless. Drug laws
should only be enforced if they hurt others...

> o ``We must stop the heretics!''
> Torture, pain, burning at the stake, etc.

Yes, I know, I'd have been killed about (two?)
centuries back, and many of my friends as well, if
we'd maintained our beliefs in a much-varied

> o ``We must save the souls of these poor
> creatures!''
> Torture, pain, burning at the stake, etc.
This one's always agitated me.of course, all of these
still subsist on different levels.

> The remedy has always been worse than the
> ``problem''. Only time will tell
> what weirdness come from the ``We must save our kids
> from sex!'' meme.
> Hopefully, it will make the meme carriers to stop
> breeding altogether. !-[
> </RANT>

Neal Marin
"Why should I feel lonely?
Is not our planet in the Milky Way?"
Henry David Thoreau
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