RE: Christ, evangelicals and divine punishments...

From: Rick Strongitharm (
Date: Wed Jan 12 2000 - 19:31:41 MST

john grigg wrote:

> >I don't know you personally Spike but the idea of you being smoldering,
> >overdone toast does bother me! :)

Spike responded:
>Ja me too. {8^D However, as I said, I have to my own satisfaction
>determined that the notion of a universal power casting into the lake
>of fire those who fail to believe, is one that evolved in order for
>the powerful to control the proletariate.

Dear john grigg:

and so it should bother you, john, so it should. It was a concept of Hell
that gave birth to my first questions about the veracity of the gospel of
Jesus Christ. For more information on how I lost my religion, please visit

1. Will there be more people in Hell for all eternity or in Heaven?

2. How must God feel, if even one of His creation is in Hell?

3. When God started things off in the beginning, did He know that this is
how things would turn

4. Did He know that He would send His only Son to die a horrible death and
even temporary separation from His Father?

5. If He did, how could He possibly have thought this was a good plan?

6. Was it His only option?

7. What good will Hell do? What good is it doing? If it's supposed to be a
deterrent, it doesn't
seem to be working, does it?

8. Wouldn't such a good God be able to attract people to Himself because of
His good attributes?

9. Does God need to use fear to attract souls to Himself? Does He not have
unlimited good options?

10. Wouldn't any sane, fully informed individual be attracted to God if He
revealed Himself fully?

11. And how could anyone, if not fully informed or completely sane, be held
liable for a misuse of their free will?

12. Can you imagine anything that a child of yours could do that would make
you feel justified in
seeing them tortured for one hour, let alone for all eternity?

I'm getting carried away, but certainly He could have come up with a better
plan. Whether there are one billion or ten billion human beings being
eternally tortured in Hell, its' a hideous scenario, one for which no other
human being should ever find consolation.

The Gospel message is not now, and has never been, available to any more
than a small minority. If loss of innocence comes from hearing, then
evangelists & missionaries are delivering the ultimate jeopardy.

Since with God all things are possible, and since God is not willing that
any should perish, donít you think He might have a better plan? One that is
more successful, at least from the perspective of those who die,

Donít you think, if God loves us and wants us to love Him, of our own free
will, He wouldnít have created Satan and Hell, particularly knowing in
advance that a significant number of us would end up there?

Can you imagine, from the perspective of humanity, any worse plan, unless
perhaps it included fewer of us.


-----Original Message-----
[]On Behalf Of Al Villalobos
Sent: January 10, 2000 3:31 PM
To: ''
Subject: RE: Christ, evangelicals and divine punishments...

>-----Original Message-----
>From: john grigg []
>Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2000 4:44 PM
>Subject: Christ, evangelicals and divine punishments...

>....I was fascinated by the thread about Jesus Christ. I had already read
>various views on his historical origins but still found the discussion to
>food for thought. I believe Christ to have lived and also to have been
>divine but can see how people could contend over his origins. I must do my

>own research to see how accurate the posts were of certain people as to the

>evidence or lack of regarding him. I find it very hard to believe that a
>person could take the view that Christ never even existed. From a
>legalistic view at least it would seem very definite that he did.

Personally, I find it very easy to believe that christ never existed.
Here's a great piece that is well written and exhaustively documented about
the historical origins of Christianity itself and the historicity (or lack
thereof) of jesus.

Here's another good site with lots of heretical info about mormonism:

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