Creating new states [was Re: Creating Religions for Dummies in 12 Steps]

From: Robert Bradbury (
Date: Sun Jan 09 2000 - 07:35:09 MST

On Sat, 8 Jan 2000, Amara Graps wrote:

> Yah, the Russian propaganda-machine is expert (and in a class by itself).
> ... Any ideas about what small country they'll take over next?
> (one-quarter-smiley here)
Well, this raises some very interesting points. It tooks some time
for me to understand the situation in Chechniya because we really
don't understand Russian history very well. The people in that
region very strongly "independence" minded, it would be questionable
whether even their own self-elected (local) government would have
much control over them (similar to the "tribes" in Afganastan or Somalia).
Stalin solved the problem by packing up the entire population
and moving them to the steppes in the middle of Russia where they
pretty much remained until after the breakup of the Soviet Union.
Since then they have been trying to "break free" from Russia.

Now, unlike the former "republics" (Kyrgyrstan, Turkmenistan,
Kazakstan, the Ukraine, etc.) where there was a legal agreement
regarding their "participation" in the Soviet Union, that became
null-and-void after the breakup or the semi-autonomous regions
where there are strong historical precedents for semi-indpendent
city-states/nation-states, or simply regions that have largely
differing ethnic blocks (Ukraine & Belerus to a lesser degree),
the linkup between Chechniya and Russia seems to be quite old,
from the times when Tsars pushed south, presumably seeking warm
water ports. After Stalin moved out all the Chechniyans, many ethnic
Russians were moved in and there is of course the oil pipeline
issue and the question of how much the locals can extort/steal
from it.

I've often looked at the situation and compared it to the American
Civil war where people were fighting a separate set of beliefs and
one group wanted to impose its beliefs arguing for the protection
of a third group, economic interests, etc. I expect that books
could be written on this topic.

When they resorted to kidnapping foreigners, the probably killed
chances they might have had for getting foreign recognition. When
they resorted to terrorism within Russia, they probably shot themselves
in the feet.

However the situation in Chechniya and the recent articles on micro-states
do point out some very interesting problems we will be facing. Lets
say for example the GM or cloning issues turns out to be unresolvable.
Will the only solution be for the pro-technology people to move to
a specific location and declare independence? If so, how does one
accomplish this. The people in Chechniya seem to provide good
examples of how not to do it, while the people of Quebec may have
a process that shows how it might be done.


This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Thu Jul 27 2000 - 14:02:09 MDT