Re: Cheerful libertarianism

From: Anders Sandberg (asa@nada.kth.se)
Date: Wed Sep 10 2003 - 02:57:26 MDT

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    On Tue, Sep 09, 2003 at 05:31:17PM -0500, alexboko wrote:
    > Anders Sandberg wrote:
    > >solutions, alternative strategies and plenty of surprises. Hence there
    > >is no reason to strive for monoculture but rather diverse cultures
    > >with certain biases. And I fully accept that the situation is
    > >symmetric with other people: there is room for overlaying our memetic
    > >radiations.
    >
    > The 'certain biases' probably being something like rationality and
    > non-coercion, am I right?

    Yes.

    > But you know, I don't even mind individuals that don't share these
    > biases in our memepool... as long as they're a fringe rather than the
    > dominant force. In practical terms, if I could push a button that would
    > memetically-engineer all the religious fundamentalists, Nazis,
    > eco-luddites, and Communists into good little Extropians, I wouldn't do
    > it. 90% of them into Extropians? Then yes, I'd be tempted to push the
    > button, that's true. But I do not wish outright memetic extinction on
    > anybody, even those who are literally my worst memetic adversaries.

    (diverging into another subject here)

    This is an interesting issue. Being very much into non-coercion
    I don't consider either button acceptable at all; even changing
    the mind of one opponent this way would be wrong - while I agree
    that conserving memetic diversity is good, the right to one's mind
    is even more important (and in this case both are aligned). But at
    the same time I have no problems with the idea of debating and
    perhaps convincing a lot of opponents. So what makes these cases
    different? Is it just the "unnatural means" of the button?

    I think the key here is that we to a first approximation are the
    rulers of our minds. We change our opinions based on the full
    contents of our minds and not just the latest input, making it to a
    large extent a voluntary action. If I refuse to accept a logical or
    convincing argument (perhaps grasping at semantic or religious
    straws or whatever) it is still my decision. Even when I am
    convinced gradually, without any real conscious awareness, that
    change is to a great extent based on the rest of my cognitive
    structure. Hence it can be said to be *my* decision, even if the
    conscious part of me was not highly involved.

    The above argument needs a lot of refining (like many other
    arguments in the age of cognitive neuroscience) to deal with a more
    complex image of volition and integrity. But developing a better
    theory of when something is merely persuasion (acceptable) and when
    it is brainwashing (unacceptable) will be very helpful for much
    future debates and social thinking.

    -- 
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Anders Sandberg                                      Towards Ascension!
    asa@nada.kth.se                            http://www.nada.kth.se/~asa/
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