Re: would you vote for this man?

From: Robbie Lindauer (robblin@thetip.org)
Date: Tue Sep 02 2003 - 15:34:33 MDT

  • Next message: Adrian Tymes: "Re: Who'd submit to the benevolent dictatorship of GAI anyway?"

    Greg:

    Thanks for taking the time.

    I can see that our sole point of difference comes down to whether or
    not "In the Long Run" we had to act now.

    This strikes me as an epistemological question - given two possible
    long-term future outcomes, couldn't several short-term options lead to
    them given that we don't know what's going to happen as a result of our
    immediate action.

    Here's what I mean:

    If we choose to go to war - we could inadvertently further enrage the
    rest of the world while losing our current allies, thus further
    destabilizing our position in the area.

    OR

    If we choose to go to war we could have a definitive victory and it
    have a long-lasting impression on the neighbor "Islamic" states that
    gets them to change their ways.

    OR

    We could choose not to go to war and therebye further enrage the rest
    of the world while losing our current allies, thus further
    destabilizing our position in the area.

    OR

    We could choose not to go to war and therebye have a long-lasting
    impression on the neighbor "Islamic" states that gets them to change
    their ways.

    Before we act, we don't really know which one is going to happen.
    (Although we might have strong inclinations in one way or the other, we
    don't KNOW). What we KNOW is that we have a CHOICE.

    If we have a choice, we are not being forced. If we were not Forced in
    this sense, then we didn't have to bomb them, so we did it without
    necessity, and we both agreed, it was wrong to do so.

    I think the only way out of this would be something like a certaintity
    judgement for:

    We knew, before the fact, that the outcome would be better than all the
    possible outcomes.

    I just don't see any evidence of any kind for that kind of proposition.
      I doubt that it can ever be produced unless you really are being
    forced and someone is genuinely amassing tanks at your borders.

    Best,

    Robbie Lindauer

    On Tuesday, September 2, 2003, at 06:12 AM, Greg Burch wrote:

    > My disagreement seems to stem from the judgment that the alternatives
    > to war
    > were in fact better, when viewed with a time horizon that encompassed
    > the
    > over-all trend of violent sectarian struggle in the Middle East.

    This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Tue Sep 02 2003 - 15:49:23 MDT