RE: would you vote for this man?

From: Barbara Lamar (barbaralamar@sanmarcos.net)
Date: Sat Aug 30 2003 - 18:55:15 MDT

  • Next message: Damien Broderick: "Re: would you vote for this man?"

    Greg Burch wrote:

    > What,
    > specifically counts as a "wholesale denial of fundamental rights"
    > under the
    > cited statutes? I'm particularly interested in ways in which
    > *citizens* are
    > subject to such a result upon mere application of the cited labels.

    I can't answer the question exactly as asked, because I don't know what is
    meant by "wholesale denial of fundamental rights." But I can tell you the
    aspects of the PA's that disturb me. I'll start with a specific incident
    that occurred around three months ago. A certain CPA was informed by the FBI
    that he must turn over all the papers he held relating to one of his
    clients, and that he would be in violation of the law if he informed his
    client that the papers had been taken. The CPA, shocked at being told he
    could not inform his client what had happened, called his own lawyer. The
    lawyer himself had never heard of any such law. I had read the PA and told
    the lawyer that, yes, amazingly enough, under this law the FBI could seize a
    person's papers without ever informing the owner of the papers and could
    even prevent the custodian of the papers from telling the owner. The owner
    of the papers bore no resemblance to a terrorist.

    In fact, Justice Department spokesman Bryan Sierra was quoted in the
    Washington Post as saying "We would use whatever tools are available to us
    to prosecute violations of any law," in the context of discussing the PA,
    and the wording of the PA is such that it could be used against just about
    anyone.

    The 4th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution says: "The right of the people to
    be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against
    unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants
    shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and
    particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things
    to be seized."

    If you look at British common law from the 1600's on, and at U.S. case law
    since the 4th Amendment, it's clear that secret "fishing expeditions" of the
    sort that are being conducted under the PA are exactly the sort of
    government behavior the 4th Amendment was meant to protect people from.

    Here are some of the other provisions of the PA's that could be used to bad
    ends:

    --People can be detained in prison without charged with a crime and without
    being allowed access to a lawyer and obviously, with no trial.

    -- Bank accounts can be frozen without a court order.

    --Information can be obtained about subscribers from ISP's, libraries, and
    stores.

    --Phone conversations can be monitored without a court order.

    These broad powers invite fishing expeditions and invasion of privacy. I'm
    rather sensitive about this, since my own property was invaded by the
    police, without a warrant, under the direction of the BATF -- because BATF
    agents flying over my land in a helicopter saw a Vitex tree growing on my
    land and mistook it for marijuana. A very nervous young man held me at
    gunpoint and could easily have made a mistake and blown me or my daughter
    away. We did not even remotely fit the profile of "drug dealer" or "grower"
    or any other sort of criminal.

    As Lord Acton wrote in 1887, 'Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power
    corrupts absolutely.' When there are laws on the books that give tremendous
    power to one group of people over another, the power will surely be abused
    in at least some cases.

    Whether such abuses of power will be helpful enough in preventing terrorist
    attacks to be worth the price is another question. I think not, particularly
    when I see how laws that existed before the PA's were not and are not used
    effectively. Based on the history I've read, I would predict that the
    ordinary person will still be in about the same amount of danger of
    terrorist attacks as he or she was before the PA's but will now be in danger
    of acts by overzealous police as well.

    Barbara Lamar



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