From: Samantha Atkins (samantha@objectent.com)
Date: Fri Aug 29 2003 - 19:38:40 MDT
On Friday 29 August 2003 14:07, Kevin Freels wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Samantha Atkins" <samantha@objectent.com>
> > There is more than a little material out there that his administration
> > was briefed that something like this, something very much like 9/11, was
> > in
>
> the
>
> > works. But in any case his administration has actively suppressed full
>
> and
>
> > impartial investigation into much of 9/11.
>
> This is a matter of hindsight being 20/20. The government cannot protect
> anyone from a single nut or a bunch of fruitcakes that decide to murder
> people. Any belief otherwise is simply a false sense of security. Freedom
> is a double-edged sword. They may have made mistakes, but they are human
> and do make them occasionally. We all do. I think this would be a similar
> problem in any admistration, not just Bush.
>
The case is a lot stronger than hindsight being 20/20. Why exactly would his
administration purposefully thwart a full public investigation of 9/11?
This doesn't make a lot of sense to me unless there is something highly
untoward or embarrassing. The "national security" dodge doesn't cut it as
it isn't that difficult to do a satisfactory public report that does not
expose critical information about our intelligence and counter-terrorism
abilities.
Bush and company not only made mistakes but are working diligently to not let
them come to light. So much so they are eviscerating normal review process,
FOIA, and other checks. This is out of order for any American
administration and must stop.
>
> One can hardly say we are spent into oblivion. We are here. The 1980s
> showed that we can function quite fine with deficits and debt. But yes, I
> do agree with your point that it has had little affect and as such hasn't
> been a smart thing to do.
>
Ah, I wish to hell we had only as much national debt and only as large
deficits as we had in the 80s! It was pretty damn obvious going in that
Iraq did not make a lot of sense. Afghanistan could "almost" be excused as
reaction. But there is no sign we have really learned at the official
level. What very expensive stupidity will it be next that we do that we
later excuse as "just being human" and making mistakes? Of course Iraq never
was about WMD and certainly was never about freeing the Iraqi people from
Saddam. The most rational explanation (I am not fully sure this
administration deserves that much benefit of the doubt) is that we greatly
fear the coming blow-up of Saudi Arabia and what it will do to utterly
devastate our economy. So we needed a reason to grab some fall back reserves
and to set up a strong military presence next door. It would be nice if
they just said so next time instead of causing so many people to turn
themselves into intellectual pretzels attempting to buy or deny the official
story at face value.
> > > I'm not a big fan of Bush, especially the way he invokes "God" at every
> > > opportunity, but I think that this "resume" is rather juvenile and only
> > > serves to polarize those that already dislike him. The President only
>
> does
>
> > > what he thinks he needs to do to get re-elected. That's the way the
>
> country
>
> > > was set up. To fix our problems, we need to change the way the people
> > > think, not sit around and complain about our leaders.
> >
> > Actually it is not at all 'juvenile'. What is juvenile at best is
>
> refusing to
>
> > wake up and smell the coffeee. It goes far beyond "dislike". The man
> > and his administration have objectively done much that lead to the
> > reasonable conclusion of that they are a tremendous menace to this
> > country, to the
>
> world
>
> > and to all our fondest extropic goals.
>
> I disagree. I don't see them as a tremendous menace. More like a thorn in
> my side. They are pretty much like the others before them.
Then watch and learn. I hope you learn quickly enough to make a bit of a
difference. This administration is cashin in on a lot that has gone before
plus 9/11 in order to take the gloves off and do publicly much that would
never have been tolerated eariler. The menace is both what they have already
done, overtly and covertly AND what the next group in power will do starting
from that base.
> I see two
> menaces, an educatinal system that fails to educate and a religious
> majority. Until these are fixed, our leaders will continue to make
> decisions that hurt us. And they won;t "fix" these because that is where
> their power comes from. It has to come from us.
>
I agree very much that those in power want and need unthinking and religious
excuses for unthinking. But we need to expose what they want to use these
blank checks for in order to stop them. Until we do we will not be able to
turn the unthinking ignorance around. It takes time to train minds, time to
eschew the poor programming we ourselves have suffered and reprogram. I
doubt we have enough time for this effort alone to be sufficient.
> > How do you "fix how people think" without putting out viewpoints such as
>
> this
>
> > one you just called "juvenile". It was intended to get people to think
>
> and
>
> > question.
>
> OK. If that was the intention, I'll grant that. It just seemed to me to be
> more of a superficial attack rather than an informative piece. It doesn;t
> get into the details very much.
I think it was meant as a summation. Most people do not have that long of an
attention span. They forget parts of the pattern and how and when many
things became as they are today. They hear the current soundbites and do
the predicatable reactions as planned to those soundbites.
- samantha
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