Re: Re:Lee Corbin's Goodbye

From: Mark Walker (mark@permanentend.org)
Date: Mon Aug 18 2003 - 09:40:14 MDT

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    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Greg Burch" >
    > I'm very sorry to see Lee leave the list, but I have to count it as a
    mistake
    > on Lee's part. The mistake arises from what the concept of free speech
    means
    > in the specific context of this forum. Everyone probably agrees that some
    > kind of specific post could justify excluding someone from the list. Hard
    > questions arise when we realize we almost certainly wouldn't agree on the
    > precise limits beyond which a single post could justify exclusion. We
    enter
    > the ground of irony when we realize that even some people who disagreed
    very
    > strongly with Mike Lorrey don't support his exclusion (vid. Hubert Mania's
    > post of today.)
    >
    I too saw a little irony in all this, but not the same irony: This little
    incident doesn't seem to exactly confirm the hopes that technology and
    spontaneous order will solve extant social problems. It is interesting the
    way Greg describes the problem. We have two choices: either no list
    moderation, which leads to an unacceptable degradation of list quality; or
    some form of coercion is used to enforce list rules. This either/or seems to
    go back to the Greeks and his proposed solution of distinguishing between
    government/private suppression of speech is also a familiar idea. Will our
    greater understanding of human nature and greater technological mastery not
    help? What would a technical fix to the problem look like? The most common
    suggestion is that if you don't like someone's posts you should put them in
    your killfile. As it turns out, Mike has been in my kill file for a
    longtime. Not that I find everything he says offensive or unworthwhile, it
    is simply that my assessment of the signal to noise ratio doesn't make it
    worth my time to read his numerous posts. (A little too much Yosemite Sam
    for my taste). Clearly the kill file advice has been around for a while and
    hasn't done much to avoid the present problem. (For the record: I have no
    idea what Mike is alleged to have done to merit the expulsion so I have no
    idea whether this (temporary) expulsion is justified or not). I am sure Mike
    has no idea he is in my killfile--I've never had an acrimonious exchange
    with him for instance. The reason, as I explained, is simply a cost/benefit
    calculation. I wonder if the problem is that the killfile solution doesn't
    provide sufficient feedback. Imagine a public registry of killfiles:
    somewhere on the Ex site you could register your killfile preferences, so I
    could look up my name and see the names of those who are not "buying" what I
    have to say. It would be even better if the list could be configured to send
    only those emails that are not in my killfiles. The hypothesis of this
    experiment is that people might be a little more careful in what they say,
    because they will have an interest in not increasing their killfile
    quotient; and that there may be fewer merely ad hominem exchanges as people
    can publicly signal their disapproval by changing their killfile
    preferences. I don't think most of us would see this as curtailing free
    speech, since the right to free speech does not entail that others have a
    duty to listen. In any event, without some sort of feedback mechanism it
    seems pretty clear that there is little hope for some sort of spontaneous
    order, which means that we will be stuck with the either/or that Greg
    describes.

    If I were a critic of transhumanism I would certainly use this as an example
    of how little technology and science seem to improve age-old social
    dilemmas. If my experiment is not tried I hope others will be suggested and
    tried that will attempt to move us at least a little beyond this age-old
    either/or.

    Mark

    Mark Walker, PhD
    Research Associate, Philosophy, Trinity College
    University of Toronto
    Room 214 Gerald Larkin Building
    15 Devonshire Place
    Toronto
    M5S 1H8
    www.permanentend.org



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