Re: BOOK: I, Cyborg - Kevin Warwick

From: Party of Citizens (citizens@vcn.bc.ca)
Date: Tue Aug 05 2003 - 12:42:50 MDT

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    Would you say this issue sums up to whether there is DIRECT INTERFACE WITH
    THE NERVOUS SYSTEM or not? If so, that creates a special kind of cyborg, a
    "neurobot" if you will. Anybody with a heart implant is a cyborg, but
    Warwick may have been the first neurobot.

    POC

    On Tue, 5 Aug 2003, Brett Paatsch wrote:

    > [Having had the benefit of your comments I thought
    > I take another look at this thread in light of some of
    > the claims Warwick makes in his book ]
    >
    > On Monday, July 28, 2003 11:34 PM: I wrote:
    >
    > > > I would be interested to hear what others think of
    > > > Warwick's claims to have been the first cyborg and
    > > > to what extent if at all his achievements in practice
    > > > have been surpassed by others or by Warwick
    > > > himself, now, less than a year since I, CYBORG,
    > > > was written. - Brett Paatsch
    >
    > [Alex Blainey]
    > >
    > > In my mind Warwick's claim to be the first cyborg
    > > is unjustified. He has done little more than implant
    > > a small transmitter tracking device that has no real
    > > interface with or use to the body. The device would
    > > have given exactly the same results if it were in his
    > > pocket, rather than under his skin.
    > >
    > ><snip>
    > >
    > > That said, I could be forced to agree that he is
    > > probably the first human cyborg for being a cyborg's
    > > sake. I believe his next step will be to implant direct
    > > neural connections and a transmitter. This is a far
    > > greater step towards Cyborgism and should yield
    > > some interesting data. Direct interfacing is the way
    > > to go.
    >
    > Alex, Warwick did a simpler experiment in 1998 where
    > all he did do was implant a small transmitter in his arm
    > (without connecting it any way to the median nerve) and
    > walk about with it, activating appliances in a computerised
    > house, almost, as you aptly put it, as though it was in his
    > pocket. Yet, in this book written in August 2002, he does
    > actually get an electrode array surgically implanted into
    > the medial nerve of his left wrist for three months. I wonder
    > if it is possible that you have heard of the earlier work and
    > are mixing it up with the later 2002 experiment? Certainly
    > Warwick is claiming he achieved direct interfacing (albeit
    > in a limited way) with this set of 2002 experiments.
    >
    > "A micro electrode array consisting of 100 individual
    > electrodes (only 20 of which were active due to manu-
    > facturer delivery time constraints) was implanted in the
    > median nerve (lower left arm above the wrist). The radius
    > of each electrode tip was 1-3 mm, the active region being
    > 50-80mm long."
    >
    > "The technique (provided) selective recording and
    > stimulation of sensory and/or motor neurons within the
    > nerve fascicles."
    >
    > "The main difference between the 1998 implant and the
    > new experiment was the connection that would be made
    > with the nervous system, ... using the Utah array. The
    > main body of the implant (was) a radio transmitter/
    > receiver (used) to send signals from (his) nervous system
    > by radio to the computer and to receive signals sent,
    > again by radio, from the computer and play them on
    > (his) nervous system via the median nerve in his arm."
    >
    > Amongst the achievements that Warwick would claim
    > in the 2002 experiments would be the following:
    >
    > In a first set of experiments in April 2002 Warwick
    > showed how signals from his brain could be used to
    > control robots, operate in a limited way an articulated
    > robotic hand, and to manipulate the local environment
    > (the network in the cybernetics building).
    >
    > In a second set of experiments Warwick controlled the
    > robot hand via moving his fingers and sending a neural
    > signal to a computer then across the Atlantic, via the
    > internet. He verified that he could receive a signal back
    > to his nervous system (a small shock to his median nerve
    > closing his left index finger) over the internet and
    > demonstrated a sort of bat like extra sense. To do this
    > he wore an ultrasonic hat with sender and receiver
    > antenna both wired from a wearable hat into his median
    > nerve via the array such that he could judge the proximity
    > of approaching or retreating objects with his eyes closed.
    >
    > Warwick argues these are true cyborg powers because
    > sensing over the internet and having a sonar sense like
    > a crude form of bat sonar is above and beyond the senses
    > of normal humans.
    >
    > Warwick also managed to drive a wheelchair using the
    > signals sent from his median nerve when he opened and
    > closed his hand and managed to set up a crude sort
    > of Morse code whereby he and his partner (that had a
    > single electrode implanted) could send each other simple
    > messages (essentially something or nothing - so a kind
    > of Morse code). This for Warwick was *the* very big
    > deal as he saw it as the first direct nervous system to
    > nervous system communication. Albeit in a simple form.
    >
    > [Mez writes]
    > >
    > > Warwick was certainly not the first human to have
    > > electrodes inserted into his body. Back in 97, years
    > > before Warwick had an electrode stuck in his arm,
    > > Phil Kennedy was inserting electrodes into the
    > > brains of patients with ALS and giving them the
    > > ability to move cursors on computer screens by
    > > thought. More than 20 years ago, Dobelle implanted
    > > his first patient with a cortical visual prosthesis
    > > producing useful vision. There are more than
    > > 80,000 people with cochlear implants now -
    > > electrodes stimulating their auditory nerve.
    > >
    >
    > All good points and Warwick would agree with these
    > too.
    >
    > [Mez continues:]
    > > Warwick's experiments, by contrast, are rather tame.
    >
    > Here I think I must disagree. Whilst Warwicks successes
    > are mainly proof in principle they do imo achieve successes
    > *as* proofs in principle. That Warwick was able to get his
    > experimental protocols through ethics committees and get
    > his finding on the record should make it substantially easier
    > for others to do follow up research. Warwicks research
    > shows that given a sufficiently detailed understanding of the
    > nervous system (which we are seriously lacking because its
    > so hard to get permission to do the experiments) it would be
    > possible to give amputees "bridges" over damaged nerves
    > and to get direct nervous system control over wheelchairs
    > etc. He also puts on the record that the brain can quickly
    > adopt and accommodate new sensory input without any
    > apparent side effects over a three month period.
    >
    > By doing what he did scientifically, in the way he did it, as
    > a self promoting publicity machine Warwick pushed the
    > peanut forward substantially in my view. He deliberately
    > courted the media and managed to make his relationship
    > with them a symbiotic one. In this I think his story, like the
    > story of Michael West in Merchant's of Immortality is
    > a story worth aspiring extropic entrepreneurs taking on
    > board.
    >
    > [Natasha picks up Alex Blainey's point:]
    > > > IMO even people with artificial limbs or joints rank
    > > > higher on the cyborg scale than Warwick.
    > >
    > > I agree in total. You make an important point. The art
    > > of machine/human interface is being performed by the
    > > most apt people around - those who need to upgrade
    > > to live or function, rather than fancy footwork and
    > > superficial accessorization at this point.
    >
    > To Warwicks credit he does not minimise the seriousness
    > of artificial limbs, cochlea implants etc or the utility of
    > wearables. All these things are seen as good. He is however
    > interested in improving the functionality and range of such
    > artificial limbs and he is not averse, indeed he savours the
    > idea of not just replacing what is lost of normal human
    > function but positively adding too human capabilities as
    > a matter of choice.
    >
    > [Charles Hixson raises the point of what is a cyborg
    > and cybernetics:]
    > >
    > > Perhaps "cyborgness" should be considered a graduated
    > > phenomenon rather than a flip-flop. This would put the
    > > first people to wear furs to stay warm at the most primitive
    > > level of cyborg.
    > >
    > > OTOH, a person with a pace-maker is definitely more of
    > > a cyborg than a guy with an implanted tracker. (Cyborg:
    > > Cybernetic Organism. Cybernetic from the Greek steersman.
    > > ref.: Norbert Weiner.)
    >
    > >From a number of standpoints the precise definition of cyborg
    > may be arbitrary. Warwick sees some merit in preserving the
    > term not for wearables (though he doesn't diminish their importance)
    > but for "something that is part-animal, part-machine and whose
    > capabilities are extended *beyond* normal limits. This is much
    > more general than other definitions and includes creatures other
    > than humans. It allows for mental upgrades as well as physical
    > upgrades and allows the extension to go beyond the normal
    > limits of either the animal or the machine." Warwick distinguishes
    > wearables as part of a "cybernetic system".
    >
    > [Samantha writes:]
    > > Actually, Steve Mann of continuous wearable computer
    > > fame, is much more advanced as a practical cyborg imho
    > > than anyone with medical prothesis of any kind currently
    > > on the market.
    >
    > Steve Mann certainly gets a favourable plug in the book.
    >
    > My interest Samantha was to try and find out what sorts of
    > products and what the state of the art (or near state of the
    > art) in cyborg or cyborg-like technologies was. On the whole
    > I think the book gives a pretty good summary in retrospect.
    >
    > I agree that from a practical point of view, at least in the
    > short term there is a lot to be said for being able to put on
    > and take off clothing having the sort of extra capabilities
    > that one might have as a cyborg. However what intrigued me
    > about the book was the argument that eventually the forms of
    > interpersonal communication people use with each other
    > will come to seem hopelessly inadequate in comparison
    > with the sort of tech enable telepathy that may become
    > available. I was also on the lookout for work that might
    > indicate to me how much is actually able to be done in
    > terms of cutting into the bodies of volunteers who want
    > to experiment in an informed way with memory enhancements
    > and uploads in the future. What struck me was that we
    > actually know so little not just about the brain but about
    > the nervous system generally, and that this is a logical
    > consequence of our aversion to do research on living
    > humans (including volunteers and ourselves).
    >
    > [ Samantha again:]
    >
    > > Manfred Clynes described the need for humans to
    > > artificially enhance biological functions in order to
    > > survive in the hostile environment of Space.
    >
    > This theme of the need to become cyborgs, to join
    > with the machines or be displaced by them is an
    > underlying one throughout the book. Warwick like
    > Moravec sees humans qua humans eventually becoming
    > a subspecies.
    > ---------
    >
    > Thanks for the thoughts folks. In hindsight I reckon the
    > book is a reasonably good read but as I said originally
    > it is like looking over the shoulder of a researcher and
    > I imagine a ghost writer or several editors had to do a
    > lot of work to turn Warwicks notes into a readable
    > but not very indexed book.
    >
    > Regards,
    > Brett Paatsch
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >



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