RE: free speech on the extrope list

From: Ramez Naam (mez@apexnano.com)
Date: Fri Jul 25 2003 - 10:38:21 MDT

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    From: Lee Corbin [mailto:lcorbin@tsoft.com]
    > Alex [actually Mez] writes
    >
    > > Lee, I respect your opinion
    >
    > yes, I can tell! ;-) No caps! ;-)

    :) Just to be clear, the line above attributed to Alex (and in the
    rest of this post) was written by me, Mez.

    > > on this but I believe you're missing an important social dynamic.
    > >
    > > If I say something truly stupid or despicable and some
    > > stranger yells
    > > at me, it will be counterproductive on their part.
    >
    > Do you think that it is objectively determinable what is
    > truly stupid and despicable? You make it sound very much as
    > if you do.

    Just replace "something truly stupid and despicable" with "something
    that I, after thinking about it for a while, will decide is truly
    stupid and despicable". This is purely a post-hoc subjective
    assessment on my part.

    > Well, the real dynamic is that he perhaps indeed should yell
    > at you---because evidently some of his friends are of such
    > intolerant dispositions, that his security, safety,
    > privileges, or fortune may be impaired if he doesn't learn to
    > keep his
    > mouth shut about some things. This is, of course, the true
    > unconscious message communicated to those we shout down (or
    > try to shout down): Beware---be afraid.

    Perhaps that's true for you. But it varies from person to person.
    For me, being yelled at by a stranger is a purely combative and
    negative event. On the other hand, being yelled at by someone I
    trust, like, and respect is so startling and unexpected that it's like
    having cold water thrown on my face. It wakes me up and forces me to
    re-evaluate what I just said.

    > > If I say something truly stupid or despicable and a
    > > friend of mine, someone who I respect, reacts with
    > > obvious dismay and tells me quite strongly that what
    > > I've just said is dangerous, then I will take note.
    >
    > Yes. Exactly. Some ideas---alas even here---are just to
    > dangerous to speak aloud.

    That's not what I said. This was not about censorship. This was about
    friends telling Robert that they were completely aghast at what he'd
    suggested.

    > > My defenses may rise, but because I trust, like, and
    > > admire the person, I will listen. Most importantly,
    > > I will realize that this is really an important
    > > topic to them, and that I should devote some attention
    > > to their opinion. If they had spoken mildly, I might
    > > have missed that.
    >
    > Yes, his primitive fear circuitry would not be aroused.

    Humans are emotional beings and communicate in emotional ways. Do you
    deny this? Do you believe that we'd be better off without any
    emotional content in our communication? I don't.



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