RE: flame wars

From: Lee Corbin (lcorbin@tsoft.com)
Date: Fri Jul 18 2003 - 22:41:49 MDT

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    Harvey writes

    > For the record, all my complaints were summarily dismissed by the
    > moderator(s) previous and current. I was told that I could not complain on
    > behalf of others. I have consistently refused to complain on behalf of
    > myself to avoid the appearance of a conflict of interest. During my decade
    > on this list, I have never had any complaint accepted by any moderator.

    Hmm. Okay, if you say so. Well, somebody complained.

    But anyway, why isn't all that behind us?

    > > So, Mike, I don't think that it was really a big deal, though
    > > taxing for those of us worrying that finally after all these
    > > years maybe speech on the Extropian list would not be free.
    > > But free it has remained, not surprisingly.
    >
    > There is no free speech on this list while members report that they
    > are too afraid to speak publicly for fear of personal attacks.

    Well, this is a new definition of "free speech" to me. I will
    have to think about it. I certainly cannot think of any
    historical parallels now. Besides, to define a freedom in
    terms of how people *feel* sounds quite peculiar.

    I will maintain that speech is free when people are permitted
    to say anything that they want. Of course, this implies that
    on no moderated list is speech *completely* free, but a practical
    first approximation is that one is free to say anything whatsoever
    provided that one is not excessively engaging in personal attacks.

    Could you tell me who is afraid to speak publicly for fear of
    personal attacks or other criticism? (It's not that I expect
    you here to betray confidences---perhaps some of these worthies
    have written some posts, either by name or anonymously?)

    > We lose more speech when people drop out, stay silent, or
    > curtail their own speech than we gain by allowing insulting
    > and ad hominem speech to continue. Flame-wars do not
    > encourage free speech and participation, they suppress it.

    Well, apparently I am taking my own advice only too well,
    because I am not aware of any really problematical tendencies.
    Why do you think that the usual list moderators are not up to
    dealing with the problems that do occasionally arise?

    Lee



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