RE: The Iraq war was extropian? Re: [Iraq] The real reason for the war

From: Paul Grant (shade999@optonline.net)
Date: Thu Jun 12 2003 - 12:09:26 MDT

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    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: owner-extropians@extropy.org
    > [mailto:owner-extropians@extropy.org] On Behalf Of John K Clark
    > Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 11:41 AM
    > To: extropians@extropy.org
    > Subject: Re: The Iraq war was extropian? Re: [Iraq] The real
    > reason for the war
    >
    > I think you will find few right wing flag waving mindless
    > patriots on this list, in fact most are anti government, it's
    > just that after 911 it became clear that there is a sub group
    > in another culture that want us dead and is doing everything
    > they can think of to brink it about. Solving that little
    > problem tends to overcome other ideological objections we may
    > have at least for the near term.
    > John K Clark jonkc@att.net

    You could start by fixing the stuff 9/11 was about.
    -US support for Israel (financial, military) and how that relates to the
    Palestinians.
    -Occupation of Saudia Arabia (and some odd 140 other countries under the
    guise of military bases)
    -Removing american supported (and placed) dictators in the middle east
    -Removing any policies in place that purposefully destabilize the region
    so you can get your oil cheaper
    -Don't mind "fundamentalist" or religious based political groups if and
    when they gain power so long as
    they are *democratically* elected. If the people in that region want a
    religious government, why
    shouldn't they be allowed to have one? Just because western mentality
    espouses separation of church and state
    as a *THEORY* does not mean everyone else DOES or SHOULD. As I recall,
    the muslim caliphs did well under an
    Islamic government.
    -Educate your public that everyone not american is not immediately an
    ignorant savage who thirsts for (US) blood.
    -FIX YOUR MEDIA PROBLEM; a broader viewpoint than the US-centric PULP
    currently being pushed would be nice.
    -Stop selling weapons to anybody in the MidEast - it should be clear by
    now that region is to unstable in its current configuration
    to try to turn a quick profit on somebody else's bloodshed is morally
    wrong, and the US is currently sitting in judgement, whether or not
    Its brought before the UN.
    -Lastly, stop insulting the prophet mohamed (this is more of a
    right-wing christian problem);
    I have yet to see a single muslim proclaim loudly, "Jesus was a
    goat-buggering RAPIST!"
    -Generally, stay out of the middle east.

    Contrary to what the US Media would lead you to believe,
    -Nobody cares what you (or your women) wear, talk or believe (freedom of
    religion is gauranteed under the koran)
    -Nobody cares that you have more money; muslims believe this world is a
    blink of the eye, and are generally
     more concerned about their afterlife and their family.
    -Nobody in the middle east really cares about Americans, past charging
    them 200% more for a taxi cab than somebody
    in the region would pay [which is understandable given the currency
    exchange rates involved and the methods and players
    involved in manipulating it].

    OR

    You could continue in ignorance, generally fucking people over left and
    right, and EVENTUALLY GET TAGGED.
    And while I empathize your markets are down (and thus hope to bring the
    economy back up through increased
    military-industrial-defense-complex spending), and that your current
    public consumes some ridiculously
    disproportionate amount of world energy per capita in the form of oil
    (thus necessitating trying to be super greedy
    And attempting to control foreign countries), and that you hope to
    marginalize the world's developing countries labor supply with
    this ridiculous Concept of "intellectual property" (thought crime
    anyone?), you should (as a nation of "intelligent, advanced people")
    clearly be able to see that your attempts at control *will* eventually
    fail.

    So you can try and prevent every insane wacko or group of wacko's from
    eventually nailing your ass to the wall through a
    Sheer monetary expenditure and advanced technology (useless ballistic
    missile defense anyone?), you will do so ONLY at grave
    Cost, both in the restriction of your civil liberties (which for the
    most case, are available only to those who can afford the lawyers
    To navigate your byzantine law system), and increased tax-dollar
    spending in the "war on terror" without end, thus engendering
    More of the world population's hatred as you crush their "terroristic"
    activities.

    Put more simply,
    An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

    Addressing the problems caused by US foreign policy would certainly be
    more effective as a preventative
    Than anally raping a country and telling them they should be grateful
    for your civilizing force ("a beacon for democracy"
    or somesuch phrase) and then proclaiming "Why would someone attack us?!"
    with the traditional sin of ommision that has engendered
    MUCH STUPIDITY FROM HUMANITY in general, by replying "They must be crazy
    wackos". Honestly trying to understand
    And accommodate your opponents viewpoint generally gets you much farther
    than full combat with sticks and stones (or WMD's).

    And if that hasn't convinced you, perhaps I should point out that there
    are currently 288 million people in the US.
    The rest of the worlds population is currently 6 billion. That's
    approximately 21 potential "terrorists" for every one
    US citizen.

    Now play nice.
    omard-out

    PS> I am an American citizen; so don't bother with the Euro-flaming
    crap, concentrate on the points.



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