From: Terry W. Colvin (fortean1@mindspring.com)
Date: Fri Jun 06 2003 - 12:21:37 MDT
Multiple posts forwarded from the Down Syndrome list - TWC:
Absolutely right. When ADHD is treated with the appropriate medication, the
difference in a child's achievement, and sense of self, can be tremendous. As a
special ed teacher, I've been blown away by what can happen when an accurate
diagnosis is combined with the right meds.
Mary in Tumwater (mother of Jon (DS, 23)
----------------------
I think you should spend a few days volunteering in a classroom to get a
better sense of what it is like - I've spent 14 years working in schools as both
a
teacher and an administrator - ADD/ADHD is real and it can be sheer torture
for a child when not identified and treated properly - independent/accelerated
learning is not going to "fix" those who truly have ADD/ADHD - contrary to
what you may believe not every child with ADD/ADHD is identified as "special ed"
and bringing in "big bucks" for schools (special education is expensive
schools aren't trying to identify more kids to get more money, in fact I'd be
more
fearful that children who should be identified and be receiving additional
services aren't because no one wants to spend the extra money) many kids
diagnosed
with ADD/ADHD and being treated prior to starting school are doing fine
without the assistance of "special education" - I am sorry you had such a poor
experience in school but it has been my experience that most school personnel
want
what is best for the student - if they voice a concern that a student may
need to be evaluated for ADD/ADHD by a physician they are doing so because they
believe it will help the student not because it will make their discipline
problems any easier.
Cindy H.
------------------------
Len Leshin writes:
>At 07:54 PM 6/3/2003 -0700, Terry W. Colvin wrote:
> >> > Alleged ADHD is simply the crime of behaving like a little boy when
> >> > the powers that be want all children to behave like little girls.
> >>
Which is why my daughter is on Ritalin, I suppose.
> >Because the treatment today is to warehouse the ADHD kids as zombies
> >hopped up on drugs as strong as cocaine. This is in no way
> >'normalizing' them, it is simply a matter of storage and exploitation,
> >since if you classify more of your student body as 'special education'
> >kids (as ADHD kids are) you get more state and federal funding. It is a
> >real life version of "Coma".
>
My daughter attends regular classes at the high school, and is definitely
not a zombie.
>I'm not sure why this was posted here, but this is really incorrect. ADHD
>has been proven to be a condition of decreased norepinephrine and dopamine
>in the brain. The stimulants used are not "as strong as cocaine" and
>children and adults with the proper dose of medication do not behave like
>zombies. The purpose of medicine is to enable the children to do well in
>school scholastically. Children who are doing well scholastically but
>having behavior problems should not be given ADHD medication just for that
>purpose.
>
Well, I can't claim that Kathy is doing well in school, but the reason
the school pushed us to take her to a phychologist was the behavior
problems rather than the bad grades.
>Personally, I have seen children go from failing to the honor roll once on
>the right medication.
>
I'm still waiting for that, but she's at least not failing.
Everyone in my family seems to have it to some degree (I think it comes
from my father), so I'm really hoping David (2.5, DS) doesn't have it as well.
-------------------------
I believe ADHD exists and can be treated with medication.
I'll probably get flamed for this, BUT....
there are a few issues that makes it much more complicated!
First, there is no real test for ADHD. I truly wish that there were a test
to see if the dopamine levels were correct in a persons brain. Instead they
do a survey of teachers and parents and sort of guess. They guess at the
medication until they feel it is correct, and while it might not be cocaine,
it IS amphetamine. Second, ADHD is misdiagnosed and it is typically
misdiagnosed in boys. That is fact not theory. Third, I belong to a list
for parents of gifted students. Often they are misdiagnosed as ADHD because
they are bored and fidgeting in the classroom. One parent compared it to
making an adult repeat Kindergarten and learn to count. You would be
incredibly bored and fidgeting.
Before anyone flames me for this please read my experience!
I have been struggling with this lately with my 12 year old. My 14 year old
has been in the gifted program since 2nd grade. My 12 year old was referred
in 2nd grade by his teacher, but for some reason the school psych was
reluctant to test him. (I suspect it was a budget issue and had little to
do with my son.) Anyway, he was finally tested in the 6th grade. To be
identified as gifted you must score 130 on either the verbal or the applied
parts of the test. My son's verbal score was 128, his applied score was
106. The 128 score is just under the limit. Over the past 4 years I have
watched his apptitude test scores decline steadily. He has been bored in
school for sooo long that he dislikes it and he has no study skills. He
gets A's and B's but he doesn't have to work for them.
Dr. Len you said that children that are performing well scholastically but
have behavior issues should not be medicated for ADHD. Then why are they
suggesting this for my son?
The school psych said my son had a variation between the applied parts of
the test and the verbal parts of the test that were in the school psych's
opinion "statistically significant". According to the school psych, anytime
the range between these scores is greater that 20 points they suspect ADHD.
NOTE: He said ADHD minus the hyperactivity or "ADD" in his own words. My
school psych went on to tell me that although my son may have ADD that it
was a GOOD thing. That very famous and intelligent people were ADD and were
brilliant because of it. He told me that I needed to look at it differently
and that school teachers were notorious for looking at it as a bad thing
because they want kids to behave. He said he didn't feel I should medicate
my son.
Although NO teacher has every said ADD to me I felt that I wouldn't be a
good mother if I didn't follow up on this claim by the school psych.
I spoke to my sister (a school teacher) about this. She told me about a
wonderful psych that evaluated her daughter for ADHD. She said that the
evaluation included an IQ test, history from parents and teachers, and a
variety of alternatives before resorting to medication.
My insurance would not pay for this psychologist so I went to the psych that
my insurance would pay for. This psychologist told me that IQ tests are NOT
used to determine ADHD (???) that he had never heard of such a thing. BUT,
that if the teachers at school think my son fidgets a lot "he should
probably be medicated."
He gave me surveys to send to the teachers, and I have the surveys in my
kitchen right now waiting to be mailed to the teachers. Whether or not my
son is medicated will be determined largely by their opinion of him. I feel
a little like we are playing Russian Roulette with his future because I have
gotten conflicting information from the professionals who have seen him.
Finally, I'm not crazy about the idea of giving my child an amphetamine
without being certain of the diagnosis.
Heather Schulte
-----------------------
I appreciate your response. I'm going to impose on you a little more
because I would love it if my perceptions are misconceptions.
The follow-up professional I talked to works for the state mental health
center. this agency is the only agency my insurance company will approve.
The used the criteria, and although I answered "yes" to most of the
inattentive questions (not the hyperactive ones) it is my personal feeling
than most children I know would get "yes" answers to these questions.
According to WebMD Ritalin is methylphenidate and Adderall another commonly
used treatment for ADHD is Amphetamine mixed salts. Dexedrine
(dextroamphetamine sulfate), and Cylert (pemoline), have been shown to help
about 70% of the people with ADHD. All of these are stimulants and aren't
they addictive?
Do you know one in NE Kansas or NW Missouri? I'd love to get an opinion
from them.
I have told you everything that I know. The beggining of all of this was an
IQ test. My son gets good grades. He gets in trouble at school for minor
incidents 4-5 times each school year. No teacher has told me that he has
ADD. That is why it suprised me that the Mental Health Center was somewhat
eager jump to a diagnosis.
Thanks for you opinions,
Heather Schulte
------------------------
I have always heard that adhd meds are "uppers" for non adhd and calming for
those suffering from adhd. my sister has 1 child of 5 that she believes has
adhd. she gives her adderall. one day she mixed up her daughter's adderall
with her vitamin, and accidentally swallowed it. She said she had a day of
"euphoria" that everything went better. This caused me to pause and
think!!! Either my sister (who has no obvious signs of adhd) is a sufferer,
OR the meds make everyone a little "happier". Why wouldn't a child who is
normally behavioral be good if he is in a state of euphoria from drugs?
Just an honest question!
Heather Schulte
------------------------
You said before that Ritalin (although it is in the same catagory as
Adderall) is not Amphetamine. Is it less dangerous than Adderall in your
opinion? What about the newer one ...Strattera?
And what about the side effects? Is increasing academic performance really
worth risking halucinations (the scariest side effect listed)?
I'm not trying to slam anyone who gives thier child adhd drugs. These are
just sincere questions from a worried mom hesitant to drug her son with a
strong stimulants for what she sees a mild case of inattentiveness.
Heather Schulte
------------------------
I heartily agree with Dr. Len. I work with a woman in her forties who has
DS, and she has become infected with MRSA (Dr. Len could correct me on the
proper acronym and what the letters exactly mean, I've only heard them spoken).
This is basically, a really nasty antibiotic resistant staff infection. We're
all being tested to see if we've been colonized. She's had a ton of
antibiotics in her time; probably 10 different courses at least since I've
known her.
She may soon lose an eye to it, and who knows?
You can't be too careful with antibiotics these days. Every time I have to
have my daughter on them I shudder, because I know what can happen...
Sandra
Mom to Ramona 19
------------------------
Yes very good point about the antibiotics - I am wondering since most
children take their majority of anitbiotics because of ear infections do all
ear infections have to be treated with anitbiotics? Can an ear infection
ever just be let to "run it's course". How does the doctor know whether or
not the infection is bacterial or viral?
Anna
------------------------
Not a problem in the US to the degree that it is in countries like Mexico
where antibiotics are purchased over the counter. Antibiotics being sold
w/o doctors advice is much more likely the cause of the "superbugs" than an
occasional misdiagnosis. IMO
Heather Schulte
------------------------
Heather, have they recommended starting meds with your son? ADD doesn't
just run in the Duffey family, it practically gallops (remember the line from
Arsenic and Old Lace?..LOL). My 17 yo was tested for it through his school
(his teachers DID feel he has it) and they did not dx him...they called it a
*unique learning style*. Even though he wasn't dx'd with it, he is allowed
extra time on exams and tests at school and there are various *techniques* we
use to help him focus....like using timers, breaking studying up in increments,
and letting ALL his teachers know in the beginning of each year about what
works for Brendan (VERY hard because not all will cooperate and we've had
battles). Brendan does so so in school (it IS an extremely academically
challenging
school though) but scores very high on all national tests (did great on his
first SAT's--takes the second ones next week and more his senior year) and
every teacher he's ever had has told us how incredibly smart he is. We suspect
that there is a label in there somewhere, and maybe we'll do private testing
(still talking about it). But my nephew Greg, Brendan's best friend, was dx'd
with it (his focus issues are much more blatant, AND the impulsivness too) and
has been on Adderall for 3 years. He himself talks about what a difference
it makes (course, he forgets to take it a lot and his Mom, a Duffey, has major
ADD too...Man oh man). When I think back to my elementary school days going
to a Catholic factory, er, I mean school, with 65 to 70 kids in a classroom,
I can spout off handfuls of kids who probably had ADHD and instead were just
labelled *bad* kids. And I suspect the prisons are riddled with people who
have it and never were dx'd. So, it works both ways.
Donna
-----------------------
After an hour of talking with me...not observing my son.... the psych told
me that we would have to wait for the questionaires to come back from the
teachers.
However, he was almost certain that my son had ADD. He proceded to tell me
what kind of meds he would give (Adderall because it is given less often).
I asked if there were alternative to medications we could try and he said we
could put a barrier up around his desk at school.
I reminded him that the teachers were not indicating ADD and that his
behavior in school was not that uncharacteristic of a 12 yr. old boy. He
said that based on my answers to the questions he asked me that "it really
looked like ADD."
Heather Schulte
----------------------
Yes Donna you are VERY right about this. I just really felt that the psych
I saw did not take the time to get to know my son. He talked to him for
maybe 5 minutes and was really pushing the issue of medicating when we left.
*sigh*
My problem is I need to find a doctor I trust to discuss this with but
that's going to cost an arm and a leg w/o my insurance companies approval.
Darn insurance companies.
Heather Schulte
-----------------------
Heather,
Is there a Scottish Rite hospital near you? If so, you can obtain learning
differences testing there (that includes ADD) at no charge. They are
excellent (and thorough).
Best regards,
Sharon
-- Terry W. Colvin, Sierra Vista, Arizona (USA) < fortean1@mindspring.com > Alternate: < fortean1@msn.com > Home Page: < http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Stargate/8958/index.html > Sites: * Fortean Times * Mystic's Haven * TLCB * U.S. Message Text Formatting (USMTF) Program ------------ Member: Thailand-Laos-Cambodia Brotherhood (TLCB) Mailing List TLCB Web Site: < http://www.tlc-brotherhood.org >[Vietnam veterans, Allies, CIA/NSA, and "steenkeen" contractors are welcome.]
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