From: Anders Sandberg (asa@nada.kth.se)
Date: Mon Jun 02 2003 - 10:30:10 MDT
On Sun, Jun 01, 2003 at 09:39:38PM -0400, ABlainey@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 02/06/03 02:02:18 GMT Daylight Time, nanowave@shaw.ca
> writes:
> .........
> > I believe as extropians we are bound to draw closer together over the
> > course
> > of the next few decades (or centuries) and we ought to seriously consider
> > clever, economical, and downright cool strategies that might enhance our
> > understanding and appreciation of these final, historic, pre-singularity
> > days.
> > ................
Hmm, starting millennarian communes? Isn't that a bit backward looking?
:-)
I think we are unlikely to draw closer together, at least *if we are
successful*. If we are successful, transhumanist ideas about open
societies, distributed solutions, using technology to transform the human
condition etc will become more and more part of the mainstream debate. We
will be involved with projects related to this, some of us maybe make a
living as pundits and academics debating these issues, others run
companies or simply support through everyday means. There will be a great
variety of things to do, and the border between extropianism and society
at large will fade. That also means that transhumanists won't be isolated
and have little reason to flock together unless they want to meet old
friends or maybe share a sense of "more transhuman than thou".
The only reason for us to strongly band together is because everybody
else doesn't understand us or oppose our aims - and then we have failed
as a movement of ideas. In that case a distributed cell structure makes
more sense than a great ship.
The aircraft carrier Extro 1 is very cool - I would love to participate
in such a project. But I would participate because it is cool, not
because it makes much political or economical sense. If we want something
useful, I recommend starting companies together with people you agree
with, can work with and know how to turn a profit (not necessarily
transhumanists themselves).
[Longtime list members have heard this rant before; I seem to be stuck
in a stimulus-response pattern when it comes to Oceania-like solutions
:-)]
ABlainey:
> This prompts me to voice one thing I have noticed about the list in
> general (from my viewpoint anyway) As a group I think we are adding to
> extropy. At the same time, we are all doing it through individual
> efforts. Other than regional meetings, etc., Extropianism seems to be a
> very solitary affair. Where each of us is still waging our daily war
> with the everyday problems of life. We still have to work, pay bills
> and live in our own houses, with no help from fellow extropes other
> than rare snippets of advise.
>
> Pooling our talents in a collective pot would seem a very obvious and
> hopefully profitable endeavour. Maybe we should forward a few ideas for
> an extropian business? we are all online and im sure many of us would
> be very happy to devote time and knowledge if we had a financial gain.
> We already have Writers, researchers and probably everything we need to
> start an online publishing company. Maybe a new everyday life list
> would help, where we could exchange ideas and advise on everyday
> things. Such as health, finances even just swap recipes.
On one level I couldn't agree more, on one level I disagree a lot.
Lets start with the disagreement: I doubt there will ever be a company
encompassing most of the extropian list. Imagine that this entire list
was gathered in a room. Would you seriously consider sharing your
financial future with some of the... ahem, *characters* standing in the
corners? Would *they* want to do it with you? Just because we share some
basic ideas doesn't mean we agree on others, and people might be
differently suited for different jobs - but not necessarily know it.
My own experience in starting a think tank is that even when you select
from people you know fairly well and agree with, there is going to be
quite some trial and error before you get the right people who can
contribute to a company and make it a success. A mailing list is an
agora, an open place where everybody can come and go, and that makes it a
good place to meet new people. But finding the right people to a company
is a selection process where one has to find the right candidates, not
just people who happen to like the idea.
The agreement part is that I think the right way of approaching this is
to look for business opportunities where one can both be transhumanist
and make money. Not just one, but both. That way they reinforce each
other, and we get rewards for being true to our ideas and we get a chance
to do what we like. Start out small, and keep your feelers out for other
similar nexi. We can work together professionally.
-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Anders Sandberg Towards Ascension! asa@nada.kth.se http://www.nada.kth.se/~asa/ GCS/M/S/O d++ -p+ c++++ !l u+ e++ m++ s+/+ n--- h+/* f+ g+ w++ t+ r+ !y
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