From: Alex Ramonsky (alex@ramonsky.com)
Date: Sun Jun 29 2003 - 16:56:53 MDT
Samantha Atkins wrote:
>On Friday 27 June 2003 00:54, Alex Ramonsky wrote:
>
>
>>Samantha Atkins wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Really, such butchery to produce an artificial relief rather than facing
>>>and dealing with the feelings does seem rather contemptible.
>>>
>>>
>>Oh, hasty judgement! ...have you ever _had_ PTSD? : )
>>
>>
>
>You know, you are right. That is a hasty judgment. However, I have been
>subject to doctors being all too happy to hand out a pill to make any
>difficulty go away rather than teaching real-life tools for handling at least
>some of those problems.
>
Yes that is so.
> I worry that we may reach too often for a seeming
>technological fix that makes the symptoms go away without really
>understanding or dealing with the actual issues and other causes.
>
...And that's more importantly so...unfortunately TMS may encounter a
conflict with the first problem because it is looking very effective in
treating depression...now the sufferer would have to go for regular
sessions, but could come off drugs, and TMS seems to have much fewer
side effects than drugs. I don't think drug companies would be too
impressed by that concept, so there may be a conflict.
>
>
>
>>>It's not removing guilt, it's removing _the ability to feel guilt_. In
>>>
>>>
>>my opinion 'guilt' is a symptom of mental disorder due to malfunction.
>>There is no reason for an intelligent, neurologically healthy person to
>>ever feel it. If they have done nothing deliberately that they know to
>>be bad, what is there to feel guilty about? Mistakes should not invoke
>>guilt; mistakes happen to everybody and we all know that and accept it.
>>And if someone is being an a-hole on purpose, they're unlikely to feel
>>guilty, because they're an a-hole...
>>Where does that leave a place for guilt, apart from filling you full of
>>hormones that make you sick and shortening your lifespan?
>>
>>
>>
>
>While I don't consider longterm guilt at all optimal I think some sense of
>remorse over misdeeds is not necessarily a bad thing. Clinging to that
>indefinitely isn't healthy.
>
Why would anything intelligent commit 'misdeeds' to be guilty over? As I
said, there is no misdeed in a mistake. Where is the place for guilt?
This is a legitimate question. Embarrassment or remorse for not being as
bright as we feel we could have been in any given situation, fair
enough. We'll learn. Guilt? Guilt for _what_?
>
>
>> wiping 'guilt' is not, for me, a misuse of
>>technology but part of the cure for a malfunction, so perhaps it is
>>hasty to use the word 'misuse'? ... a lot of people think stem-cell
>>cloning is 'misuse'...you know what I mean?
>>
>>
>>
>
>It is certainly subject to misuse though.
>
Well, I think that applies to almost everything, in it's own way. I
could even misuse cheese. I could certainly kill somebody with it.
>
>
>>...That's why I asked about the PTSD...ever-increasing guilt about your
>>inability to cope, and your inability to stop experiencing horrid things
>>against your will, can utterly destroy your life.
>>
>>
>
>But this is a bit more than your run-of-the-mill guilt over some actual
>wrongdoing.
>
Yes, absolutely. But it is using the same feeling, the same set of
hormones, the same networks, as everyday guilt about, say, 'what you
said to someone in the middle of last week when you were feeling
irritable and they might have misunderstood or thought you were being
rude' sort of guilt. What I am saying is that _none_ of this is
necessary. Instead of guilt about failing to live up to our standards,
we need integrity and determination and resolution to do better;
positives; not a negative. The complete removal of the ability to feel
guilt is an advantage to intelligence. That's what I'm saying. Give it
up, it's bad for your health and it will kill you, is what I'm saying.
It's worse for you than smoking, is what I'm saying. Give it up for
medical reasons.
...I'm nagging you now, aren't I? : )
But, what are we addicted to? -If your doctor told you to give up
_worrying_ because it was bad for your health for example, would you
(could you) comply?
Best,
AR
>
>- samantha
>
>
>
>
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