RE: META: Time to enforce the List Rules! (personal revelation)

From: Harvey Newstrom (
Date: Tue Jun 17 2003 - 07:30:32 MDT

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    Amara Graps wrote,
    > I consider it a lost battle.

    > I tried in the beginning to correct what
    > errors I saw, but it became an enormous chore. The answer for me is
    > to not respond to what little that I read that misrepresents me.

    > I would rather support my reputation in activities off of the
    > extropians email list.

    > I do protest that absent periods and not reading/responding to 85%
    > of the messages here, implies consent or agreement of some topic.
    > Often I hear of what people have responded to my short links or
    > words via other people, and while it is annoying for me to sometimes
    > find my words or intention twisted (sometimes to the extreme), it's
    > not a conversation-clarification or battle that is worth my efforts
    > to fight.

    This is my biggest concern, and why I seem have a personal vendetta to fight
    here. I am often contacted off-list by people who have given up trying to
    have discussions on the extropians list. Sometimes they just become lurkers
    only, sometimes they drop off altogether. They just get tired of the
    constant battles to defend themselves online. This list is simply more
    hurtful and difficult and dangerous than other lists. And this is driving
    away potential participants in droves. It is definitely hurting our goals
    for spreading memes about the extropian philosophy. Instead, we are
    associating political infighting and extreme political viewpoints with our

    There is also the concern over personal reputations and having
    misrepresentations tar us in public. Many of us have professional careers
    that require us to avoid the appearance of impropriety. I personally have
    had clients reject contracts with me because an Internet search on my name
    shows me connected to the Extropians List. Most people don't realize that
    this is why I drop in and out over the years, and why I suddenly disappeared
    from the Board of Directors. When the list just becomes too extreme, I feel
    that it is detrimental for me to be associated with it. I have never had
    any problem with ExI or the philosophy. But the false accusations on this
    list and the level of debate here literally reflects poorly on my and
    damages my profession. A simple Google on any of our names will bring up
    the list archives due to our numerous postings. This instantly links each
    of us to list discussions whether we are personally involved or not.

    I will even reveal something that few people know. A couple of years ago
    when I was involved in a dot-com startup that no longer exists, one of our
    venture capitalists expressed interest in providing funding to ExI. They
    thought our futuristic and technological philosophies might give an
    executive better insight and a better reputation. They were intrigued by my
    involvement with the Board of Directors and thought this would make my
    executive profile look attractive to investors in future startups. To
    facilitate this angle, they thought they could have their execs as members
    for free think-tank support and prestige, as well as indicating their active
    involvement in promoting future technology. In return, they would want to
    provide funding to keep ExI viable and promotional activities to enhance
    ExI's visibility in the technology sector. The idea was still at the
    talking stage, and I had barely mentioned the possibility to Max and
    Natasha, when suddenly they pulled out and dropped any consideration of me
    or ExI for any future projects. They had found the list and were reading
    it. They said their execs were horrified at what they saw. They were
    unanimous that they did not want to be even indirectly associated with such
    unprofessional behavior. This was a huge loss of a potential support and
    funding for ExI. And it was lost due to bad behavior on this list which had
    nothing to do with ExI, the Board of Directors, or anything officially
    connected to the extropian philosophy.

    This has forever shortened my patience with unprofessional behavior,
    personal attacks, and unfounded accusations in this public forum. We are
    supposed to be an educational or promotional group, and yet we are driving
    away interest customers in droves.

    Harvey Newstrom, CISM, CISSP, IAM, IBMCP, GSEC
    Certified InfoSec Manager, Certified IS Security Pro, NSA-certified
    InfoSec Assessor, IBM-certified Security Consultant, SANS-cert GSEC
    <> <>

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