Re: The Iraq war was extropian? Re: [Iraq] The real reason for the war

From: John K Clark (jonkc@att.net)
Date: Sun Jun 15 2003 - 12:17:24 MDT

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    "Paul Grant" <shade999@optonline.net>

    > it [911] certainly got the Bush administration to draw up
    >a road map to peace rather quickly.

    It wasn't 911 that caused the recent peace scare, it was because Saddam was
    no longer around so Israel felt more comfortable making concessions. It
    didn't amount to anything of course, as in the past just as it looked like a
    settlement might be possible a Palestinian straps on some dynamite and blows
    up a school bus.

    > And in regards to Jews, you've just acknowledged they're killing
    >people on a regular basis.

    That's what war is about, killing people, and Israel has been no more brutal
    about it than any other large military power, better than most in fact. And
    I've asked this question several times but never got an answer, if the
    incredible rage in the Islamic community that has no rival in the modern
    world was really caused because they thought a tiny sub group of them that
    most have never seen and lived thousands of miles away were mistreated then
    you would expect an ever greater homicidal rage in another people who were
    far far more horribly treated. So why are Jews not crashing airliners into
    German skyscrapers?

    > Doing it piecemeal doesn't make it any less horrifying than doing it
    >all at once

    Nonsense, of course it's more horrifying, two murders are twice as bad as
    one and six million murders are six times worse than one million.

    >>Me:
    >> Brotherhood? Muslims have killed far more Muslims than
    >>the West could ever dream of doing.

    >Same could be said of Christianity

    Yes, and your point being....

    >its generally politics that gets people killed, not religions

    Are you trying to tell me with a straight face it's just a coincidence that
    for centuries one side of the war in Ireland was Catholic and the other
    Protestant, and in India one side was Muslim and the other Hindu, and in Sri
    Lanka one side was Buddhist and the other Hindu, and in the mid east one
    side was Jewish and the other Muslim?

    > I think it [ democracy] will satisfy them; and thats what its all
    >about eh?

    You think that do you, I don't. I don't think democracy is what it's all
    about, freedom is, but the group we're talking about would disagree, they
    would say Islam is what it's all about.

    >guerilla warfare with extremely motivated troops can overcome any
    >technology based advantages.

    Any technological advantage? I don't think so, just ask the Afghans or the
    Iraqis; or the Aztecs or the Incas for that matter, the most one sided wars
    in history .

    > Israel the state is the bad guy in my world picture

    I don't have a major problem with that, but you also think the Arabs are the
    good guys in the white hats and I do have a major problem with that.

    >I do acknowledge they [Jews] have a right to live there.

    How very big of you, but don't say that around any Palestinians, they'll
    kill you dead for making such a concession, their idea of a concession is to
    drive all Israelis into the sea.

    >The state of Israel is simply too destablizing to the region.

    For good or ill the state of Israel exists and it's not going away, at least
    not until generations of warfare have turned the mid east into a wasteland.
    If you want peace you must learn to live with it, this is not a moral
    statement it is a pragmatic one. And I don't really know what you mean by
    destabilizing anyway, you blasted America for destabilizing the region then
    you blasted America for preserving the Status Quo, you can't have it both
    ways.

               John K Clark jonkc@att.net



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