Re: [IRAQ] RE: Name Calling vs. Ad Hominem

From: Samantha (samantha@objectent.com)
Date: Tue May 13 2003 - 00:39:46 MDT

  • Next message: Samantha: "Re: [IRAQ] RE: Name Calling vs. Ad Hominem"

    On Thursday 08 May 2003 08:54 am, Damien Sullivanwrote:

    > Plus, it's odd to think of us spreading democracy abroad while
    > civil liberties are eroded at home and people want to make the
    > Patriot act permanent early and we're criticizing the Canadians for
    > giving people too much protection against government snooping.
    >

    What is happening on the home front in the US is *much* more
    dangerous than terrorism ever was. We must get and keep oversight
    of our supposed "public servants". We must make our fundamental
    civil liberties truly fundamental and not subject to government
    forfeiture. We must end the false notion that Constitutional
    guarantees are automatically suspended during "a time of war",
    especially when it is not Constitutionally such a time at all. It is
    not Constitutional to suspend the Bill of Rights in any circumstances
    short of a declared full national emergency and declaring that is not
    a casual process for damn good reasons. We must as a people stop
    putting the noose the government hands us around our necks whenever
    the government waves its hands and mumbles "national security".

    If we want to retain enough freedom to build an extropian future at
    all we must take these things very seriously. If we are determined
    to build/reach a much more extropian future we must limit the power
    of the State to control technological investigation and development.
    Failing that we must make and keep room to act contrary to State
    decisions when necessary. The alternative is relinqushment of the
    future to whatever "the people" decide.

    > So, it's still possible that the net effect of the war could be
    > positive. There's still room for a royal fuckup too. And I'm still
    > voting Democratic in 2004.
    >

    If the net is positive it will be sheer dumb luck and I will eat my
    hat. The net effect of the increasingly all-powerful State
    domestically and increased secrecy and removal of oversight of said
    State cannot be other than a very dangerous loss of freedom.

    I don't know how I will vote. The Democrats have not stood up once
    for freedom and liberty agains the Bush administration's domestic
    policies. I don't know what has them that cowed but I have no
    reason to expect they will bring us back to some sanity. I had to
    vote just to defeat an existing evil by picking a perhaps slightly
    less evil one.



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